456 GT: Battery Size / Larger Capacity | FerrariChat

456 GT: Battery Size / Larger Capacity

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by 360modena2003, Nov 27, 2015.

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  1. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,329
    Hello,

    I am wondering if anyone has tried to fit a larger a battery in the 456 - the 75ah (275mm x 178mm) seems to be extremely undersize for such a large engine with so many electric ancillaries.

    I know already that the space is quite limited, but has anyone tried an alternative?

    Thank you and happy Thanksgiving.
     
  2. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3

    Curious about this too. I know that when my car goes back together, I intend to fit the largest battery possible for the available space, and of course, which has the correct terminal configuration. After being stranded by an itsy bitsy Odyssey AGM battery years ago, I'm a believer in fitting the largest capacity battery available. The only downside IMO, is the weight penalty.

    With a larger battery, there's less voltage dip during starting (assuming cables & connections are good), which the ECU's and other electronics will appreciate, and there's less possibility of the alternator overcharging it.
     
  3. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    I agree but space is a limiting factor. I think despite the high output alternators small batteries are responsible for many of the electronic issues in some modern cars. If a bigger battery is possible the extra few pounds are of little consequence in a 550. We used to call them Porky Pig. They are not exactly svelte. Marginal batteries are also related to much of our alternator problems.
     
  4. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    I think there was a thread on.this about six or seven years ago and the word was that the size constraints were pretty absolute. I don't know if there have been any technology leaps in lead acid batteries since I was young, but racers of my era used Varley aircraft batteries I think.
     
  5. CobraR1339

    CobraR1339 Rookie

    Oct 12, 2014
    34
    So California
    Full Name:
    Wally Rust
    Don't know of this is the same as the 550, but for what it's worth. The Interstate Battery Taz mentioned that fit the 550 Interstate MTP-H6 is the same as the Autozone Duralast Gold H6-DLG.

    Note: Johnson Controls ( JCI ) makes the Interstate, Duralast, Sears Die hard and Motorcraft batteries. In the top of the line versions like the Duralast Gold, they are all the same specs, I am told by a friend at JCI.

    The battery weighs 40.91lbs
    BCI CCA 730
    72 AH Reserve

    7" tall
    12 1/16" wide
    6 15/16 deep

    The 550 Manual lists Batterie as 12V 70AH 420A


    The Interstate MTP-9 Is the same as the Duralast Gold T6-DLG

    6 7/8" tall
    11" wide
    6 7/8" deep

    Weighs 36.61 lbs

    700 BCI CCA
    60 AH Reserve

    Both 3 year free replacement and should be store stocked at any Autozone.
     
  6. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,329
    Yes, I agree - having such small batteries and thus causing huge "dips/spikes" in voltage during starting is without a doubt a huge strain on all the electronic/electric components.

    The Cayenne has two batteries (under the seat and one in the trunk) - perhaps this could be a solution.

    In the meantime let see what the highest Amp rated battery would fit.
     
  7. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 7, 2002
    11,166
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Barry Wolinsky
    #7 308 GTB, Nov 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have the Braille AGM B7548 in my 550, F355 challenge and Porsche 944 turbo.

    Physical Specifications

    BCI Group
    48

    Weight
    45lbs / 21.8kg

    Length
    10.9" / 277mm

    Width
    6.8" / 173mm

    Height
    7.5" / 191mm

    Polarity
    Right Side Positive


    Performance

    Voltage
    12

    Full Charge Voltage
    13.2

    Pulse Cranking Amps (PCA)
    2390

    Amp Hour (AH)
    75

    Reserve Capacity (RC)
    < 120 mins.

    Life Cycle @ 10% DOD
    3000-3500

    .
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,329
    I've notices there is an important variation in the weight of supposedly same capacity rated batteries.

    I would think that a higher weight indicates a good battery (lead is obviously the main component of any battery).
     
  9. CobraR1339

    CobraR1339 Rookie

    Oct 12, 2014
    34
    So California
    Full Name:
    Wally Rust
    Well, that depends on a few things, but generally true. More lead = less space for the electrolyte, less electrolyte and high heat , normally means a quicker failure rate. The AGM style is a bit like a deep cycle battery, more reserve. It's kind of a flat optima style battery. Where the optima insides look lie a roll of toilet paper with lead between the sheets. The AGM would be like a box of kleenex with lead between the sheets.

    Battery companies will design the internals based on power, but with respect to the climate. Batteries sold in markets like Phoenix , Vegas, parts of Texas are called souther high heat batteries. Less lead , more electrolyte. The lowest warranty rates for batteries in the US are in the San Diego and San Fran / San Jose markets. The battery that lasts 3 years in Phoenix will go up to 7 years in those markets. I know this as I used to be a battery buyer at one time and toured the plants, I was the guy that brought optima to retail form a grassroots offering.

    The 550, to me does seam to be burdened by a bunch of electronics. I am new to the car so may be missing something. All I see are the basics in it, no sunroof, nav, seat coolers, etc.

    The SL55 AMG, has 2 batteries, a consumer battery in the trunk is for the Conv top motor (30 secs at a time) and convenience stuff, heat coolers, heaters, Nav, etc. Don't even get me started on the Cayenne battery under the seat BS, what a PITA.
     
  10. CoreForce

    CoreForce Rookie

    Feb 18, 2016
    6
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Left trunk open and now battery seams to be dead, also the Ctek does not bring it up anymore.

    Manual reads the battery as 12V 70AH 400A or 12V 70AH 420A.

    What I would have at hand is a 12V 72Ah 680A
    Any objections on using that one?

    Thanks
     
  11. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    You can try to first bring it up with a standard (non-controlled) charger and only then with the CTEK. It will probably pick it up from there.
    Once a starter battery has been that flat however, 80-90% of the time it is a candidate for replacement. It just takes too much damage in such a case.

    Form factor (physical dimensions) is obviously the first factor to consider. I assume you will have checked that.
    Now 680A sounds better than 400A, doesn't it. I assume those will be some kind of CCA (cold cranking amps) rating. However that by itself is just a number, how it is measured is what counts: BU-902a: How to Measure CCA ? Battery University
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Battery maintainers like the CTEK will seldom recharge a battery that has been discharged to 80% or so.

    AGM batteries can be recharged from deep discharge multiple times, unlike normal lead acid batteries.

    That Bosch battery will work fine as long as it fits and it has reverse terminals or will fit backwards.
     
  13. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    current cars demand that many devices remain energized after the key is switched off

    there are 2 types of service available from a battery 1. is starting the engine 2. is maintaining a current supply to keep devices energized... a starting battery is designed to deliver large amount of power for a few seconds until the engine starts... this value is expressed as cold cranking amps or power...this is the battery most manufacturers supply... subjecting this battery to a slow drain will cause this battery to be flat in a very short time (remember starting batteries need to perform for only seconds at a time)
    starting batteries fail because they are NOT designed for slow drain.

    deep cycle batteries have a different internal construction which allows them supply a small amount of power for an extended time ( keep devices powered up )... they are also known as RV or Marine batteries... an environment where running devices off battery power for an extended time is the norm, yet they also deliver ample power to start an engine... their power is measured as reserve capacity which is expressed in AH ampere hours of service... a battery with a high AH rating / reserve capacity is desired for use in cars that are not driven frequently, as it will keep the various devices powered up for a long time

    a group 24 battery ( small) advertised by price typically will have a reserve capacity of 60-75AH which is relatively small capacity... a premium quality battery in the same physical 24 size can almost double the available AH to 140AH... its' weight will also be 15-20% more which is where the extra power comes from

    starting batteries quote their power in cold cranking amps typically 600-800 available for SECONDS in time, while showing 40-60AH of reserve capacity... do the math and you will easily see why starting batteries go flat quickly with a slow drain, they have no capacity

    batteries are built with specific cars in mind to make replacement almost idiot proof. Finding a replacement battery for a Fcar one needs to buy the battery by its' physical measurements... measure the battery box in the car and make note of where the terminals ( and type ) need to be located for proper fit... batteries are available in various dimensions as well as specific polarity location for terminals ( left, right, top side, post etc
    flooded cell, gel, AGM, lithium etc are the internal technologies available in addition
    to the type of service ( starting or deep cycle )
     
  14. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
    3,665
    Oslo
    Full Name:
    Erik
    I just bought a new battery for my 550. I said I wanted the best battery... Was interested in AGM. I told him it was very hot inside the engine compartment, and then the wholesale/importer said that AGM does not like to charge when the battery is warm. Therefor, I went with a closed old school battery.
     
  15. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    those are specs for a starting battery, 72AH (reserve capacity ) is low compared to better choices... 680A is cold cranking power CCA is amount of power available for a few seconds your on hand battery is well within suggested specs, use it... assuming the physical size fits and terminals are properly located without modifying cabling
     
  16. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    AGM construction is a good choice for rugged requirements / heavy use... as good as the batteries are they have their short comings. Limited use and left in partial discharge shortens their life

    also one should not substitute a high tech battery in circuit that was designed to charge standard flooded cell batteries... AGM batteries need a higher voltage to charge than is supplied by a system designed to charge wet cell batteries... voltage regulator setting are different as well... there is more to it than the 12V marked, a high tech battery will not get to 100% charge... a lot going on and ultimately leads to an early failure... short service life at a high price
     
  17. CoreForce

    CoreForce Rookie

    Feb 18, 2016
    6
    Zurich, Switzerland
    A hint for dead battery: After the Ctek would not recognize the battery, I engaged the kill switch at gave it an hour or two. That was sufficient to have the battery recognized by the Ctek again. Managed to get the car into service this way, which was more convenient to me, to have them check and replace the battery.


    Gesendet von meinem iPad mit Tapatalk
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    The original battery in the 575M was a FIAMM VR760, which is an AGM battery. Same for the 360. There are at least three good AGM batteries, Interstate (MT7 AGM-34R), Odyssey (34R-PC1500), and Braille (B7548) that are more powerful upgrades over conventional lead-acid batteries. If someone felt they needed something more powerful than the typical Interstates most of us use, all good choices. So far, the conventional Interstates have worked fine for me and most US owners as long as a vent tube is fitted. Same for the Bosch and FIAMM batteries available to European owners.
     

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