From the camera angle I'd call it 210. I don't agree. Even here in the shop with no moving air in the summer I'd call it 10-15 degrees higher than normal. Cooling systems do not fix themselves. They only get worse. Are the fans on at that reading?
Normal oil temp after the engine is completely warmed up should be higher than the coolant temp. Oil should be around 200 F. Coolant around 190 F. IMO you have a problem there.
Mark- You are misreading the oil temperature gauge. The two large marks are between 100 and 210 F, so 110 degrees total. Six divisions are 18.33 degrees each and you are on the fourth mark so 4 x 18.33 degrees plus 100 degrees is about 173 degrees. Pretty much normal unless you are really whipping her or it is very hot. 12 quarts of oil and an oil cooler keep the oil temperature under control. On the water temperature gauge from 190 to 260 is 70 degrees and there are 8 divisions so 8.75 degrees per mark and you are just slightly past the 1st one, so around 200 degrees. Like Brian said, good cooling systems usually maintain around 190, so new coolant and bleed might be a good idea. If she still runs high water temps, a check of the water temperature senders might be worth the effort. Does she have updated plenum hoses?
The 550 manual (section 3.8) states that in standard operating conditions, the Oil temperature should be at 212 F.
Oil temp will be all over the place and there is no right temp for all conditions. It is a pretty pointless conversation as applies the oil temp. That is just not true for the cooling system. The gauge reading is too hot.
The OP has not provided context for the readings. Was this after a thorough warm up? Road/Traffic conditions? Was the temperature still climbing? What was the outside temperature? etc etc. All unknown. For comparison I took some photos of the temp gauges on my daily driver today. 199F for coolant and 163F for oil was observed at one point but at that point the engine had not completely warmed up. Beyond 199/163 the oil temp climbed slowly but steadily and never returned to 1xx. Based on observation of my car this morning, if indeed OP's image is actually ~200F for coolant and ~173F for oil, then that would not seem to be abnormal per se, given the prior unknowns. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Driving home yesterday in my 99 456 I was in stop and go -more stop than go- for at least an hour. My temp stayed close to but below 210 probably ~200. I am in Atlanta and it was cooler than normal with temp ~55. But at least its a relevant data point I think.
in my 456 it, when warmed up, coolant stays 190F, unless the fan doesn't kick on as its supposed to, or it kicks off early(which happens 1% of time)(yes, I need to fix it). The temporary fix is to turn on a/c, which forces fans on, and temp goes to perfect 190F indicated. In any case, that's my one data point.
Thanks for the responses. The car was running about ten minutes when I snapped this photo. This was in traffic at a stop light. Pleasant day -- 75 degrees or so outside. This is pretty typical of what I see in most conditions. I notice it runs a hair warmer if the a/c is running. The fan is on and off a lot when the car is running, especially with the a/c going. It does make me wonder about the sender. It seems to warm up very quickly--at least the water temp. It stays much cooler if I'm driving at any kind of speeds. It just seems to climb up in stop-and-go traffic. It has never gotten near the red, fwiw.
I don't believe it has the updated plenum hoses. I got the car last fall, and I don't see that in the maintenance history. The other coolant hoses have been replaced recently.
Mark- Just put it on your to do list. The water temperature does not look critical yet, just keep an eye on it. Bad news is the intake has to be removed to change those hoses. Use 575M or SRI hoses when you do replace them. While off, preemptively changing the temperature sensors has been done by several owners.
Your description is a classic fit for a cooling system in need of attention. Terry is right...it's not critical yet but it's headed that way and what it is doing is your warning. I'd fix it before it leaves you stranded or does engine damage. Hoses are good prevention but they are not a fix for anything you have going on.
Mark did it start this behavior after the coolant hoses were replaced? If so, you may simply need to bleed/purge the coolant system of air. These V12's are simple in theory, but a bit fussy in practice to bleed properly. Here's the procedure I follow: Park the car facing upward on an inclined driveway - that or elevate the front end somewhat with ramps, etc. The goal is to make the air bleed screw on the thermostat housing, the highest point in the cooling system. Start the car and let it come up to normal operating temps Turn the heater on and set the thermostat at its highest setting. This will ensure you have coolant passing through the entire system. Monitor the level of coolant in the surge tank, and top up if necessary. If you notice the level drops when you turn the heater on, you may have found (one of) your problem(s). Crack open the bleed screw on the thermostat housing and see if any air escapes. If any does, you may have found another problem. Once the system is purged, and you have a good coolant level in the surge tank, take it out for a drive and see if the temperatures have improved.
What type of "cooling system attention" are you thinking about? I have same condition with my 95 F 456 GT, but I have been through everything with my mechanic. New silicon hoses, new OEM thermostat, coolant change and proper air bleed. Fans come on at specified temp and are operating at spec. At 3,000 RPM in clean air anything over 45 mph and temp drops right down just under 190F. But in traffic or left to idle for 10 or so minutes on an 80F+ day and it will stabilize around 200-210F. My guess is it's time for a replacement. My next step would be a Ron Davis radiator...but that's a 10-week project and a few thousand dollars. Custom Built Aluminum Radiators - Ron Davis Racing Products. These have been documented on this site. Mark in Houston had a good dual add-on fan solution that he built himself and detailed on FerrariChat.
Without looking at the car I have no idea. That is why in the car business we have shops. Diagnosing and fixing cars on the internet isn't possible. The factory radiator is a more efficient piece than the one you are talking about.
Wise words Brian, but with regards to the radiator its almost impossible to get our radiator repaired, $1700 as opposed to $7130 for OEM its an easy choice. D.
I understand. I once showed one to a very good radiator fabricator and he told me he had no access to tube stock to fabricate a radiator of that efficiency and based on direct experience with after market radiators I have every reason to believe him. I have yet to see a custom radiator in a 456 do the job. There is nothing about the OE radiator that cannot be fixed or serviced, it is a matter of ability on the part of the shop and their willingness to do so. The radiator industry has turned into a combination of buggy whip manufacturing and fast food. The quality people are nearly gone and replaced by burger flippers, not unlike nearly every skilled trade in this country. People don't want to pay so no one goes into that industry. Then when suddenly you need them no one is there. I deal with it all day every day. You guys a couple of times a year.
John: Agree on difficulty of diagnosis by internet. Last year my temperature gauge starting reading a little high and after looking thru a few posts here on F-Chat I found someone referring to the electric water pump. After locating and changing mine, my problem went away. For the 456GT see item 13 on the RicambiAmerica.com diagram. It circulates coolant but is in the a/c system diagram not in the cooling system diagram. I would investigate. Regarding radiators, I have used Maine Auto Radiator Maine Auto Radiator a few times over the years for hard to find vintage cores. They are old school guys and may be able to rebuild to original spec. They manufacture and sell cores to radiator shops nationwide. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
