Difference between '03 vs '05 575M

rear roll bar diameter for 1 thing

 

Yup, 21.5 mm (including paint) vs 17.5 mm (paint). You can easily read the part numbers on the tags on the springs, too. Or look at the steering ECU. Brakes may squeal, too.

 

There is a 575 badge on the rear of the 05 model.

 

What's the last 5 digits of vin on 2003 ?

 

Your ignorance must be bliss.
I wasn't making fun of you . Just stating a fact.

 

No worries.
TAZ has put together a full document on the changes throughout the production years.
Do a search and also check in the technical thread at the top of the page..

 

Here are the differences. There are lots of differences between the 03s and 05s, biggest of which is the steering position sensor. No differences in shift times except for HGTC 575Ms (180 ms vs 220 ms). Cross-check the serial number document to see when they were made. That is mainly why I built that one.
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'05 Model Years are pretty scarce.

While Taz has outlined the differences (improvements seem to happen haphazardly by assembly number not model year), I don't think there is a driving experience difference (assuming the 05 is not an HGTC).

I would choose the car in the better condition. If all is equal, the 05, being a bit more scarce may be the nod.

Enjoy!
dsd

 

The steering position sensor introduced at AN 52556 is a pretty big improvement in handling, all else being equal, and the straight center pipes and new mufflers introduced at AN 51797 improve the sound of the exhaust noticeably.

 

"The steering position sensor introduced at AN 52556 is a pretty big improvement in handling"

Taz would it be safe to include in the above statement, "for non FHP cars"?
With the upgraded suspension and steering ECU on the pre 52556 cars they drive and perform very well. Have not driven a later 575 to compare but welcome comments to those that have.
Bill
FL

Included a pic from the Ferrari Nats here in Daytona this week. Several Maranello's in the concours and on track. The red tan 575 in foreground is a stick. The Nats were nice but no where near the Finali event this past December.
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Bill- The steering position sensor actually improves handling on both non-FHP and FHP 575Ms. The steering position sensor sends a signal to the Shock ECU to stiffen the shocks on the outside of a turn, just like the accelerometers do. The difference is the accelerometers lag, while the steering position sensor is nearly instantaneous in its response and also tells the Shock ECU how quickly the steering wheel is being turned. So the steering position sensor is a benefit to both and an improvement to both. I missed having it by about 10 serial numbers.

The change is probably more noticeable in non-FHP 575Ms with their softer springs and rear anti-roll bar. Ferrari overestimated the effectiveness of the new accelerometers fitted to the 575M. All the other V12s (456s, 550s) had a steering position sensor. They fixed that for the 575M in November 2003.

Earlier models cannot be upgraded because the wiring harness was changed to carry the steering position sensor input to the Shock ECU via the CAN. Using a post AN 52556 Shock ECU in an early 575M gives a permanent suspension fault because that steering signal is missing. The harness change also included the upgrade from the 30 amp F1 pump motor relay to a 50 amp version with a different connector.

 

I don't know what I'm more impressed by: Taz's knowledge; his ability to explain his knowledge clearly; or his willingness to do it repeatedly over the years.

I'm going to check my AN tomorrow morning but I suspect I just missed out, also. it would be fascinating to drive a gated post Nov 2003 FHP 575 to see the difference.

As with all older cars, though, there are such variations between individual cars with a 575, regardless of spec. The problem is not everywhere will let you try properly before you buy.

 

Very nice cars in that photo.

 

Well said Darius regarding Taz. And Thank you Taz.
Here's one more pic of Maranello's from the FCA event.
Bill
FL
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Not sure if the OP is still looking for a car but it should be possible to confirm the original specification if the original invoice is available (or a build sheet can be obtained via a dealership MODIS inquiry).

Of course, the original specification and the current specification could well be different, but it's always good to know what the starting point was!

I'll admit that I have only ever driven an HGTC-retrofitted early car and my former car (a very late '05 with 19's and FHP) but I am aware of the reports that the early standard chassis cars (where still fitted with the earliest shock absorber ECUs) can be considered 'soft'.

However, these cars are really quite hard to buy (and invariably, the one you really want will be located miles away, possibly in a different country) so if you see one that you are potentially interested in, you should really try to secure a test drive and see if it meets with your approval based on your intended use.

For example, some gentlemen drivers may find that the FHP chassis is just 'different' and not necessarily 'better'. e.g. It should be more sporting yes, but perhaps it is more suited to perfectly smooth road surfaces vs. the standard chassis cars which may be more suited to the traditional GT role and may be less tiring (for driver and passenger) over long distances where road surfaces are less than ideal etc.

For me, the jury's out on whether or not the #52556 milestone is the deciding factor here as many early cars have benefitted (or still could benefit) from the later shock absorber ECUs.

It's clear that Ferrari went to some trouble to re-introduce the steering position sensor but I have seen no empirical evidence to suggest that the end result was a 'transformation' in the ride/handling experience.

The 575M clearly benefitted from a steady stream of enhancements during its life as per Taz's list so on that basis, I cannot think of any area where one would favour an early car over a later one. Therefore, as a rule of thumb, you can't go far wrong with 'the later, the better' but with so many variables such as mileage, condition, history, options and colour scheme etc., it really would be a luxury to be in a position to choose between two (or more) potential targets - even with so many cars apparently on the market at any one time.

 

The steering position sensor made enough difference in steering feel and handling that Ferrari did not fit the FHP Hydraulic Steering ECU to the HGTC, but used the standard ECU. The new HGTC shocks, shock mounts, and Shock Absorber ECU also likely contributed to that decision. Half that set of shocks was also standard on very late non-HGTC 575Ms.

There are so many variations on 575M upgrades and ECUs that it is difficult to make gross generalizations, except, as mentioned, later is usually better. Especially since we have been teaching owners how to improve and upgrade their 575Ms for a long time.

When I finish with my 575M, I will have the original build sheet and one I do myself that shows all the upgrades, ie ceramic brakes, 19" wheels, homelink, leather rear shelf, Daytona seats, carbon fiber interior (only missing one piece now).

 

The apparent lack of a FHP steering ECU on the HGTC cars has always intrigued me.

The HGTC retrofit car that I drove had incredibly meaty steering but I have post-rationalised this and now think it must have been because of Servotronic valve failure on that particular car.

As I understand it, the Servotronic valve is there to vary (i.e. to bleed-off) hydraulic pressure on demand, and therefore the 'sensation' of power assistance changes based on the speed-sensitive inputs received from the steering ECU.

The hydraulic system and hardware is always the same but that Servotronic valve can bleed off 'unwanted' hydraulic pressure based on a map and the effect will be increased steering weight for any given speed (steering feel being almost completely independent and more to do with geometry than anything else) and my assumption is that both the regular and FHP-equipped cars will have similar maximum power assistance at parking speeds but on the FHP-equipped cars, the power assistance level will be reduced faster as speed builds but then above a particular high cruising speed, the same low level of power assistance could be experienced with both maps.

 

MSW has done studies on the hydraulic boost schedule for the steering ECUs, including graphs of the steering maps, if you want to do a search. They played with custom maps, FHP maps that only operate in Sport mode, etc. Not so much bleeding off pressure as varying the amount of boost available, using a check valve, based on velocity . The steering ECU definitely affects steering feel and heaviness, at least in the range where either is varying boost.