Ordered My First Ferrari! 488 GTB Rosso Corsa | FerrariChat

Ordered My First Ferrari! 488 GTB Rosso Corsa

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by RossoCorsa716, May 24, 2017.

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  1. RossoCorsa716

    RossoCorsa716 Karting

    May 15, 2017
    116
    Los Angeles, CA
    #1 RossoCorsa716, May 24, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello FerrariChat community! This is my first post, but I hope the content is useful for others too.

    I'm in LA and ordered a fairly classic spec 488 GTB (see attached pics) from Beverly Hills Ferrari. They were kind enough to give me an allocation even though I had not previously purchased a pre-owned Ferrari from them. Order placed April 3 and they told me to expect car in September (~ 5 months for delivery).

    I'm planning on leasing, and the best they could do for me was the following:
    MSRP $302,570 (no mark up)
    Lease Term: 60 months, open-ended; residual $159,000
    Mileage: 3500/year
    MF: 0.0027 (~ 6.5% APR)
    Drive-off: $23k (of which only $10,767.33 goes toward cap reduction)
    Est Monthly (w/tax): $3730

    Question: Is this a good deal??? It seems pretty standard as they are really not giving me any incentives, but then again it's my first Ferrari with them so I don't know what to expect. They did say they would take care of the clear bra for the hood, front bumper, fenders, and mirrors but I'm pretty sure that's only a ~$1400 value.

    I chose to lease under my corp as my accountant tells me he can write off about ~80% of lease payment. That seems aspirational to me, but anything he can write off will be welcomed by me!

    I plan on driving the car ~1k - 1.2k/yr to keep the residual high and maybe selling back to dealer for a spyder in 1 - 2 years. The dealer tells me at that mileage they will likely be able to buy the car back from me for ~300k after 1 year and ~280k after 2 years. Are they just blowing smoke? If not the equity will be nice to have!

    Thank so much for taking time to help me navigate these uncharted waters!
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  2. RossoCorsa716

    RossoCorsa716 Karting

    May 15, 2017
    116
    Los Angeles, CA
    Wanted to give this a bump to see if anyone had thoughts?

    Also, thoughts on ceramic coating prior to clear bra?
     
  3. 488inVegas

    488inVegas Rookie

    Mar 5, 2017
    45
    Las Vegas / Laguna Beach
    Full Name:
    Edward
    It seems to me you could just finance the vehicle with no mileage restrictions and own the vehicle.

    $302k + sales tax ($27k +/-) (unless you register in Montana- no sales tax)
    10% down - 30k
    Loan amount approx $299k
    3.9% through Ferrari finance or TD for 84 months puts you at 4K month.
     
  4. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,227
    Arizona
    First of all congrats.

    Second- open ended leases can be big trouble if you get in an accident. There was a recent thread to do only a closed end lease. I'm not a believer of leasing for a toy but putting that aside- see if you can do closed ended lease.

    Doubt you will get 300k back in a few years. Maybe 270-275 but at this level what's a few bucks.

    And as far as writing off the lease, you can absolutley do it, till you get caught. Hard to justify writing off the car but I hold certainly try if your accountant is game.

    Good luck and congrats. Keep us posted as the car gets closer to arrival.
     
  5. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,251
    Austin TX
    Or you could use Ferrari Finance and do a balloon retail, payments would be quite a bit less and have same "residual" at end (i.e. the balloon payment) of 60 months and you could quite easily, presumedly, sell the car for a lot more and re-coup some unless you want to keep it...

    And, since you cannot "finance" the car until you have a VIN, I would have the dealer work up a FFS balloon contract to see how that compares...I think you'll like it
     
  6. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
    953
    #6 boobernackle, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
    Beautiful spec'ed car, mine is very similar to your "classic" build. With regards to leasing, I would stay away from an open ended lease due to what SoCal mentioned, I believe he was referring to another thread where I brought up that same recommendation. If you plan on selling the car back to the dealer within 1-2 years, then the mileage restriction doesn't mean much.

    The only issue is, you can do a 3 year closed end lease, but your residual is still $159K, meaning your payments will jump accordingly, but you will recapture that equity once you sell the car back to the dealer. This just protects you should you get into an accident throughout your ownership, think of it as a hedge. Your factory options DO NOT residualize on a 488, so get rid of the forged wheel option along with the CF on the exterior and Daytona style seats, they do nothing for resale. Keep the CF steering wheel, don't you even think about removing that option.

    With the 720s around the corner, your dealer is being very optimistic with the valuations... think about it, they were willing to sell you a 488 without going the usual route of a waitlist/buying a prior Ferrari. Hedge accordingly. Expect to lose around $30K-$40K/year throughout your ownership. They were not "kind enough" to give you an allocation... somebody somewhere must've backed out of an order and you probably walked into their lap at the right time, or somewhere thereabouts. If you don't believe me, ask them to show you a deal jacket for other buyers/sellers that took your route and see what they gave others for their 488 trades within the past 3-4 months to keep it recent. By law, dealers are required to keep records of every car they sell for up to 7 years, they usually keep the first 1-3 years of deals onsite, then store the older ones offsite through entities like Iron Mountain/etc. See what they show you and how "kind enough" they will be.

    With regards to your accountant, make sure they know you're thinking about leasing a new Ferrari and NOT a BMW 3 series... :)

    People just can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that Ferrari is now a publicly traded company, YoY sales and profits mean a lot to traders/investors, who won't buy into the "heritage" argument as much as their customers will. They are increasing production, coupled with the 720s, just goes to show your dealer is fudging numbers with regards to buying your car back at that high of a valuation you stated.

    With regards to your monthly payment, there's not much you can do since you're getting the car at MSRP (like all others) as well as the buy rate/MF... only thing you can do is play with the lease length and options to adjust the payment.

    Finally, in California, assuming the vehicle will be registered there too, you will be paying your use tax on (9.5%) of your monthly payment, this is problematic because:

    Let's say your monthly payment (excluding tax) is $3,500
    Well, with CA tax included, that payment goes up to $3832.50/ month...

    When you decide to sell your car to the dealer, your payoff amount is:

    residual value + Total remaining monthly payments ($3832.50 each) - interest charges

    Your payoff will include sales/usage tax for the entire term, so in essence, you will be paying taxes for 36 months, even though you only kept the car for 1 year. Does that make sense?

    Some states, like Maryland for example, will give you a credit on the value of your trade-in to eliminate this problem, not sure if California does the same. For this reason, you may want to go the Montana route.

    For the aforementioned, I should send you a bill for $1000, but because I'm "kind enough", I will waive it this time around.
     
    DQSF and mr_magoo like this.
  7. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,128
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    Est Monthly (w/tax): $3730...

    Imo if you cant buy yourself, stay away from a Ferrari ...
     
  8. Gofast430

    Gofast430 Karting

    Jun 2, 2013
    205
    Overland Park, KS
    Full Name:
    Don Dearmore
    #8 Gofast430, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
    Let me understand this. You anticipate driving about 100 miles per month? The advantage you will have on resale
    Is tha about 75% of the 488's will look exactly like yours.��
     
  9. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,952
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    Congratulations on an excellent spec color wise!
     
  10. WLFerrari

    WLFerrari Karting

    Mar 17, 2017
    91
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    I am a first time poster as I am currently in the market for a new 488 spider. Fully agree with all of the comments posted by boobernackle. Curious if you would think the estimated cost of ownership is slightly reduced if it was a 488 spider vs 488 gtb as I would think they would hold up better so maybe 20/30k annual ownership cost?
     
  11. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2017
    6,203
    Regarding your question about coating the car, you should do that after the car is clear wrapped. Enjoy. The car looks gorgeous.
     
  12. RossoCorsa716

    RossoCorsa716 Karting

    May 15, 2017
    116
    Los Angeles, CA
    Wow. Thank you all for your invaluable insight. I'm going to stop by dealership to discuss financing options (including the balloon option). My main concern with the lease is the relatively high APR, and I am also a bit weary about trying to write it off as I wouldn't want to trigger an audit. I recently leased a 2017 Audi R8 and the payment is around $2100/mo x 36 mo with $6500 drive-off (I negotiated the MSRP down to $169k - sticker was $183k), which I felt safe putting under my corp, but I agree trying to put something north of $3k/mo sounds suspect.

    Boobernackle, thanks so much for all the information. I agree completely with you, and generally do not believe in the "kindness" of dealers. This whole close vs open-end lease debate seems to miss the most important point, which is that regardless of whether or not you get in an accident (pure tragedy) you're still not going to simply hand the car back at lease term because the pay-off is always going to be lower than or roughly equal to market value at that point (even with the accident), am I wrong? With a closed end lease, you have paid more throughout the life of the lease and the accident makes all that equity disappear. With an open end lease, you have held on to your money and the accident makes you have to possibly pay a little more to cover difference at lease end. In both cases you have lost equity, but in the closed-end you have let Ferrari hold your money only to get it back when you sell the car should you not get in an accident, whereas the open-end allows you to keep your money and only part with it should you have an accident - seems like the smarter thing to do given that an accident is still a rare event. I wonder if the tragic nature of the event is biasing people's opinion?

    Also the mileage limitation is meaningless because you only pay a penalty if you hold the car to lease-end AND simply hand it back. Again, no one would simply hand it back because the market value will always be higher (especially if you don't get in an accident). The only reason to consider limiting mileage is to keep residual high and that may be robbing Peter a lot to pay Paul a little (see below).

    All of the above to say that I'm now mostly leaning toward financing to get a lower APR and avoid triggering an audit.

    But on another note, you guys have made me realize that driving the car at really low miles in hopes of keeping the residual high is probably wrong-headed. The cost of not using the car (lost enjoyment, etc.) is probably far greater than the few bucks I would preserve in depreciation, would you guys agree? Maybe best to just get the car, drive it to my heart's content and should I tire of it or want to part with it at some point then whatever depreciation would have resulted from the mileage will have been money well spent. Who wants to get a Ferrari and not drive it right?! Ferraris are so timeless, even 20 year-old models look sexy and desirable when I see them on the road. Unless life circumstances necessitate that I sell the car, I can't imagine tiring of it - especially given that it's my first one. Ok, now I'm rambling.

    Thanks again guys. My build just moved to assembly. Will keep you posted!
     
  13. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,792
    Vegas baby
    It's great whenever a first time buyer gets to order a car. So congrats

    As to the financing thing, I'm not sure leasing is the best option here but it might be. But Ferrari financial is not the cheapest but probably the easiest to work with on these kinds of cars. Very professional.

    Good luck with your decision.
     
  14. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,227
    Arizona
    If you are going to buy the car to be a garage queen- skip it. Drive the dang thing. So you lose another 5k a year by putting on an extra 1000 miles. Who cares. Buy it, enjoy it. Good luck and again, congrats.
     
  15. RossoCorsa716

    RossoCorsa716 Karting

    May 15, 2017
    116
    Los Angeles, CA
    Just spent an hour at dealership going over numbers. I've decided to do a decent downpayment and finance. $50k down, 60 mo, 2.99%APR gets me $5k/mo and I only pay $21k in interest over life of loan. Will keep updating as I get closer to delivery! Thanks guys for all your input!
     
  16. mdslone

    mdslone Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2016
    332
    South
    Full Name:
    FerrariM
    Looks awesome buddy!!
     
  17. boiseferrari

    boiseferrari Formula 3

    Nov 11, 2005
    1,077
    Boise, Id.
    Full Name:
    Kriss
    #18 boiseferrari, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
    Open-Ended Lease? Never do an open-ended lease. I understand it's a Ferrari but that defeats the purpose of a lease. If the bank won't guarantee the lease end value you should just do conventional finance. In reality a closed end lease should be far less money. To be honest I've sold cars for 21 years and have never done an open-ended lease and did think they existed anymore.
     
  18. RossoCorsa716

    RossoCorsa716 Karting

    May 15, 2017
    116
    Los Angeles, CA
    I completely agree with you. I've learned a lot since my original post. Basically, an open ended lease is for a buyer who is not quite in the market but wants to take moderate to high risk and pay significant amount in interest to have a Ferrari for 1 - 2 years, at super low mileage. The hope is that market value will remain high enough to limit total cost of experiencing the Ferrari for that short period of time, even though it's a losing proposition with regard to money blown on interest.

    Just to compare, an open ended lease on MSRP of $302k at 6.5% APR over 5 years blows $90k in interest over life of lease, with the majority of that amount being front-loaded in the first 2 years.

    The same MSRP with $50k down and 5 year finance has only $21k in interest payment.

    After doing all of this research I've learned that I'm planning on keeping the car for at least 3 years (hopefully I'll never tire of her!), I want to drive to my heart's content, and I want to be smart about how much money I blow on interest. I think it's different for everyone given their means, but I'm fortunate enough to swing a finance and I think it's the smarter way to go.
     
  19. IMPEX4

    IMPEX4 Karting

    Feb 5, 2006
    138
    Full Name:
    Eric
    #20 IMPEX4, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Very nice order config.

    You got very very lucky or we have to wonder about Ferrari's 488 order book now.

    I do think that the introduction of the ?2019 California based on the Maserati Alfieri chassis may eat into 488 production so they are pumping out the 488 production.
     
  20. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
    953
    You would be correct in most cases, but with a 488, I believe the residual does not change if you do an open or close ended lease IIRC, which means Ferrari Financial is holding the equity either way. The advantage of a closed end still would be the option of simply walking away from a car that's had a major paint/repair work done.

    It's like shorting a $10 stock, the most money you can ever make is $10, but the amount of money you can lose is unlimited (in theory). Hedge accordingly.
     
  21. RossoCorsa716

    RossoCorsa716 Karting

    May 15, 2017
    116
    Los Angeles, CA
    As it turn out, I got extremely lucky. Someone backed out of build at last minute and they informed me this is the first time Ferrari has designated more allocations for spiders than coupes and they rolled out the spider just 3 months after the coupe. So a lot of potential coupe buyers held out for spider.
     
  22. IPO1

    IPO1 F1 Rookie

    Dec 23, 2015
    3,575
    #23 IPO1, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Hmm, well congrats.
     
  23. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,792
    Vegas baby

    "If I had a nickel....." :)

    But I'm still happy a first time buyer got to order a new car. It's a thrilling experience and a lot of fun.
     
  24. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,227
    Arizona
    This. I hate to burst your bubble but my buddy just specced a brand new 488 for march delivery and he has never bought a Ferrari before. It's definitely getting easier but regardless, congrats and enjoy the ride. It's or no list, allocation or no allocation, there is nothing as thrilling as a Ferrari being delivered.
     

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