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  #41  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by F2003-GA View Post
Exactly - The 720s has guaranteed us a phenomenal 488 replacement with probably 750hp or more
Which in turn will make room for a Dino below the V8 line say a 550hp turbo 6
If they do that it will either be an Alfa or a Maserati. Perhaps a new Merak. If they do it it will only be to shake up three existing brands. My understanding is they are cutting back on Maserati's sportiness to concentrate on being another Bentley while a Alfa will become another BMW / Audi in the long run.

I don't see them making a new brand. Too expensive.
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  #42  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TheMayor View Post
If they do that it will either be an Alfa or a Maserati. Perhaps a new Merak. If they do it it will only be to shake up three existing brands. My understanding is they are cutting back on Maserati's sportiness to concentrate on being another Bentley while a Alfa will become another BMW / Audi in the long run.

I don't see them making a new brand. Too expensive.
I agree, another brand makes no sense.

That said, I believe most posters do not mean "another brand" when they say "dino". They think of it as another ferrari model. I know technically Dino was a brand and not a ferrari model...but the perception by most is the opposite.

So...the question is more accurately stated as: "is adding a car below the current ferrari offerings a good idea in terms of growing sales and profits?"

My personal guess, is that given their high PE and implied growth expectations, more models are going to come...slowly but surely. An SUV type offering? Yup. A lower cost entry level to slot below the V8 GT? Perhaps (in 10 years or so). Even a four door or sedan 2+2 would not surprise me eventually. Being a stand-alone, publicly traded company with a heavily watched stock is going to have impacts in ways that history would not support.
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  #43  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Challenge64 View Post
First off, is this mystery 488 "GTO" going to be a "Speciale Series" like the Scuderia and 458 Speciale or a "Limited Edition" like the Speciale Aperta or the Tdf?

If truly is a LE, then yes I too would think there are going to be some pretty tough requirements. If it is a special series and there will be a 488 GTO Aperta, then it would be that Aperta that will be the unicorn everyone wants.

As for who decides, as far as I know, here in the U.S. each dealer submits names to FNA. FNA does their thing and forwards the list to Italy. The dealer is then told who qualifies. Oh yes...and it has little to do with who has owned a 458 Speciale or 488. It has to do with that point system someone else mentioned and total number of cars/events/previews/Corso Pilotas bought or attended. Also lots more weight given to those who buy FFs and Lussos.
Ill admit.......for the longest time I thought that the 458 Speciale, 430 Scuderia and 360 Challenge Stradale were limited production. I'm still scratching my head as to why the F12 tdf would be a limited production but the 458 Speciale wouldn't have been( I guess you could say they made good with the limited Speciale Aperta).

as for Mclarens.......besides the F1 and P1, I just can't get excited about their Super car line. Maybe something else will come down the pipe but even the 720 doesn't do it for me(especially the looks). Ah well.......
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  #44  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMayor View Post
If they do that it will either be an Alfa or a Maserati. Perhaps a new Merak. If they do it it will only be to shake up three existing brands. My understanding is they are cutting back on Maserati's sportiness to concentrate on being another Bentley while a Alfa will become another BMW / Audi in the long run.

I don't see them making a new brand. Too expensive.
Sorry I didn't mean another brand but a Ferrari badged product with 200k base price
It doesn't have to be called Dino.I just feel these cars are getting so fast and expensive
That it's creating a vacuum to be filled.200k car would be exclusive IMO plus 550hp is plenty fast
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  #45  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by F2003-GA View Post
Sorry I didn't mean another brand but a Ferrari badged product with 200k base price
It doesn't have to be called Dino.I just feel these cars are getting so fast and expensive
That it's creating a vacuum to be filled.200k car would be exclusive IMO plus 550hp is plenty fast
I think they will look at a car with an MSRP of $270K (like the 458 was) while the 488 replacement comes in at $350-$380K base price

That $270K car may in fact be the replacement for the California.

Just a guess but if the Mac 720s can start at $320K now I don't see why they can't go higher.

Most likely the replacement 488 will be a hybrid that will run on full electric power. Europe is driving this idea that cars have to run on electric inside the cities in the next 10 years. And my guess is it has a CF tub that is not made in Italy to save costs.

But its just speculation. I have no evidence but that is what I would do. Above $350K the air is pretty thin. Most cars with that base price will be sold with an MSRP of over $400k

I really do not understand their recent statement "they will never build a cheap Ferrari". Lambo makes the Huracan and Aventador. Mac makes the 570, 650 and now the 720. Porsche makes the 911 and the Cayenne.

Do any of them feel it was a mistake to make a less expensive version? I doubt it. But Ferrari is known for saying one thing and doing the exact opposite. Look at the SUV news a few weeks ago or how they swore there would never be a "specialie" version of the 458.
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Last edited by TheMayor; 08-12-2017 at 01:01 PM.
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  #46  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:25 PM
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Looking at 720s' straight performance, I doubt the 488 GTO will run faster than 720s in straight race. Ferrari has a tradizione that V8 must not run faster than V12, in this case it should not run faster than 812 Superfast. The 720s is already pretty close to the 812 if not faster.
As for the allocation, I think this will be easier to get. Because at the same time Mclaren will upgrade the 720s' power (like MP4). And if Ferrari makes it hard, money will turn to Mclaren. The 720s' doors are just too beautiful. And compared to 488, they are both turbocharged. With a normal heartbeat, I will take 488GTO, but if Ferrari dealer makes my heartbeat faster by telling me to wait until next election, I will easily turn to Mclaren.
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  #47  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:22 PM
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Then go to mac and be done with it. The rest of us will divide up and enjoy your eventual allocation. A McLaren loses its luster after a year. Ferrari does not. Ferrari is unique and an instant classic. If you don't see it that way, and unwilling to wait for one, we can certainly understand that you would go elsewhere. You can get a new McLaren virtually instantly upon demand. Not so with Ferrari. There is a reason.
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  #48  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by agrun View Post
Then go to mac and be done with it. .
One problem with that.

If the 720s is like all the other Macs have been, in one year and 2000 miles you just threw 60 - 70 grand out the window.
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  #49  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:17 AM
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FYI, here in Europe (at least Germany), based on my dealer's info, there will be no particular conditions to get an allocation for the upcoming 488 GTO.

The Ferrari owners will be prioritized in terms of delivery date but "anyone" can get a 488 GTO.

Aso here the expectation that the car will be launched in Geneva in March 2018 with first car deliveries end 2018 / early 2019.

Still a long time to wait while the 720S and the GT2RS are on the market or first deliveries soon...
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  #50  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GoHardGT3RS View Post
FYI, here in Europe (at least Germany), based on my dealer's info, there will be no particular conditions to get an allocation for the upcoming 488 GTO.

The Ferrari owners will be prioritized in terms of delivery date but "anyone" can get a 488 GTO.
Worth checking around since dealers are only too happy to take your deposit, and let you down later blaming it on the allocation criteria.
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  #51  
Old 08-13-2017, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GoHardGT3RS View Post
FYI, here in Europe (at least Germany), based on my dealer's info, there will be no particular conditions to get an allocation for the upcoming 488 GTO.

The Ferrari owners will be prioritized in terms of delivery date but "anyone" can get a 488 GTO.

Aso here the expectation that the car will be launched in Geneva in March 2018 with first car deliveries end 2018 / early 2019.

Still a long time to wait while the 720S and the GT2RS are on the market or first deliveries soon...
The 720S will probably take some share, but I really wonder what will happen with the GT2RS - in France it's priced at the level of the 812S (although there is probably less need to add options to the base price since the GT2RS has already a specific equipment).
Initially the 812S will have some availability issue and there are anyway Porsche fans, but still I think the GT2RS pricing could make it a not so compelling proposition.
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  #52  
Old 08-13-2017, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dcmetro View Post
While I believe what you said is true, I'm a member since 10 years and I know the buying history of many people here and lot of them don't fit the pattern

I have at least two members who had GTO's after ordering only one brand new 599 GTb each... That's just an exemple, I have plenty of stories
My understanding is the point system outlined above is a fairly new thing so would have no relevance to 599 GTO's and 16M's for example.
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  #53  
Old 08-13-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferrari 360 CS View Post
My understanding is the point system outlined above is a fairly new thing so would have no relevance to 599 GTO's and 16M's for example.
Correct
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  #54  
Old 08-13-2017, 10:47 AM
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Point system? I have a nice bridge to sell anyone who is interested.
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  #55  
Old 08-13-2017, 11:00 AM
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There are guys on this board who post frequently that wld be in the top 1 percent of all. Owners using those metrics and they've struggled to get normal LES (tdf), never mind the supercars (laF)
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  #56  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:12 PM
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The biggest screw up is the allocation differences between the US and Europe
Quite a few buyers from Europe posted new Speciale's as their first Ferrari's
That would never happen here in the US
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  #57  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by F2003-GA View Post
The biggest screw up is the allocation differences between the US and Europe
Quite a few buyers from Europe posted new Speciale's as their first Ferrari's
That would never happen here in the US
Like me
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  #58  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by agrun View Post
Then go to mac and be done with it. The rest of us will divide up and enjoy your eventual allocation. A McLaren loses its luster after a year. Ferrari does not. Ferrari is unique and an instant classic. If you don't see it that way, and unwilling to wait for one, we can certainly understand that you would go elsewhere. You can get a new McLaren virtually instantly upon demand. Not so with Ferrari. There is a reason.
+1
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  #59  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:22 PM
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and the children drunk lemonade.........life in a northern town!.......


she's got Betty Davis eyes!!
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  #60  
Old 08-14-2017, 09:01 AM
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I'm not sure why folks can't get there heads around the process of buying a new Ferrari, but as I learned quickly in my first purchase, demand for their cars almost always exceeds their production capacity, and that naturally leads to waiting lists. When I first inquired about a new 488 Spider I was told 20 to 24 month wait time. I created the order, paid the deposit, and then spent 12 months harassing my sales contact (which really had no affect, but he's a great guy). As we got closer, like others, I was making weekly changes until I was told no more changes were allowed. My 488 Spider is scheduled for build next month, and hopefully delivered Nov/Dec. In the end, it will likely be close to the 20 month's originally quoted.

What was interesting to me, is I personally know 2 owners (one from this forum) that ordered long after me and ended up with an allocation before me. My initial reaction in learning this was "what the f***" how is that possible?? Where is the fairness in that process?? BUT, when you look close at what is happening, it was easy to see that the dealership was taking care of a repeat buyer, one that had already had several new buys from the dealership. I put myself in the dealership's position and understood the logic, especially given the limited allocations the dealership receives. I know its still is unfair on some level, but it's reality when shopping for a new Ferrari. If you want the car, you do what most "new to Ferrari" buyers do, you pay the deposit and wait. For those that are not willing, there are other choices.

So...for now I continue to enjoy my used 458 Spider, the best exotic I've ever owned.



Jim
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