Ferrari 458 Italia SP12 - Eric Clapton

[chet]

Originally Posted by bdelp

What hate? Do you go to a movie and not like it but someone next to you does?

It's an object of art (or design if you like). We all have an opinion if it's good or bad. I'm sure Mr. Clapton is pleased. That doesn't mean we all have to be with him.

Bad analogy. Movies are generally made to appeal to the masses. This car was designed to appeal to Clapton.

The hate comment is referring to the posts mentioning how bad or silly it looks and how Clapton wasted his money. People here have been drinking too much Haterade.

[Drive550PFB]

Originally Posted by Napolis

Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina including the donor Enzo cost less than that.

P 4/5 Competizione M including the two donor cars that went into it and two years of racing cost less than that.

Interestingly, for your investment, you have created a brand--which, I believe has value far in excess of the cost of the cars.

Clapton has created a "car." (And not much else, in my opinion.)

Two very different things.

(Not suggesting that you set out to create a brand, but that appears to have been the result.)

[TheMayor]

Originally Posted by chet

Bad analogy. Movies are generally made to appeal to the masses. This car was designed to appeal to Clapton.

The hate comment is referring to the posts mentioning how bad or silly it looks and how Clapton wasted his money. People here have been drinking too much Haterade.

So, if someone makes a object for themselves, we cannot critique it? We should have no opinion of what it looks like?

Here's the real scoop:

It does look silly. A waste of money is in the opinion of the person spending it so that is Mr. Clapton's choice. I agree on that point. He can spend his money any way he wants.

And, I'm happy he likes his car. But, I think it's a cartoon. If it were a body kit on Ebay we would all be tearing it to pieces as some kind of joke. And, in fact, most are being really kind because it is Mr. Clapton's car and we respect him. Imagine if this came from some backroom body shop what people would really say.

That's just fact. Ignoring the facts seems pointless to me.

[DeSoto]

I think it is a great remake. But I don't like remakes.

Although for a music like Clapton, playing new versions of other people's songs is quite usual, so it probably makes a lot of sense for him.

[arizonaitalian]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

I am not going to post this for the 20th time. If you were too late in the discussion then do your own research.


Onno

Gee thanks. I was early in this thread and then came back but may have missed some middle posts. It likely took you longer to post your dismissive reply than to re-post a link to whatever facts you are aware of...

That said, I'll take the few minutes to do a search and attempt to find them....I mean, afterall, you already posted them 19 times, so I should be able to find them!

EDIT: I found your very first post herein (its been months since I read it, so I didn't recall it). Seems folks you know at the factory told you it isn't a v12. That is what I'd heard here to, so I already had heard that. Sounds like you trust their word. Makes sense. Fwiw, to me anyways, being told something doesn't make it a fact. It makes it being told something. Its up to the "hear-er" to decide if, in their judgement, its true or not. I don't doubt that your contacts are right. My earlier post, however, was looking for some more definitive proof, that's all. Sounds like no one has it at this point...(again ymmv, to some the word of a person they know is suffiecient. I was just asking if anyone had something more concrete since folks here were getting so worked up over the v12 vs. v8 issue and crying foul for the price in relation there to...)

[MisterMaranello]

Originally Posted by arizonaitalian

Gee thanks. I was early in this thread and then came back but may have missed some middle posts. It likely took you longer to post your dismissive reply than to re-post a link to whatever facts you are aware of...

That said, I'll take the few minutes to do a search and attempt to find them....I mean, afterall, you already posted them 19 times, so I should be able to find them!

EDIT: I found your very first post herein (its been months since I read it, so I didn't recall it). Seems folks you know at the factory told you it isn't a v12. That is what I'd heard here to, so I already had heard that. Sounds like you trust their word. Makes sense. Fwiw, to me anyways, being told something doesn't make it a fact. It makes it being told something. Its up to the "hear-er" to decide if, in their judgement, its true or not. I don't doubt that your contacts are right. My earlier post, however, was looking for some more definitive proof, that's all. Sounds like no one has it at this point...(again ymmv, to some the word of a person they know is suffiecient. I was just asking if anyone had something more concrete since folks here were getting so worked up over the v12 vs. v8 issue and crying foul for the price in relation there to...)

OMG, how hard can it be? We are all on a texted forum, not a audible discussion where someone sits down too late, and can hear what's been said. You can go back, and read what others have written before you, instead of going into a discussion of what facts, belief and here-say are.... It's called spam and trolling, when you repeat and ask questions that have been answered several times within it the same thread. (for not to mention being extremely selfish and ignorant). What if everybody was to do as you, ask for their own good; "does it have a V8?". Suddenly this thread would have 25k posts.... BTW apologies for bringing this thread further off-topic.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by chet

I don't get all the hate.

There are very few people on this board (one comes to mind--JG) who have the balls and the $ to drop $4.75mm on a custom Ferrari.

EPC got precisely what he wanted and doesn't give a **** about anyone's opinion here. God bless him.

I totally agree!

[lucky_13_2002]

I kind of don't understand something. Please excuse me if it sounds like I am doubting what is said by different contributors to the forum, but I was looking at the latest Cavalino magazine issue and the market values of the cars. And what is said on here money wise does not make much sense.
First off, when the P4/5 came out it was all over all sorts of media, that Jim paid 6 million dollars for its creation and now the numbers stated on here seem to be like a third of that.
Then if you look at the values listed in the mag for all the other SP Ferraris, none of them are as high as what is claimed that the SP12 costs.
Something does not jive here.
Also doing certain things in a certain way were deemed cost prohibitive, but it seems they were done with the P4/5 but not to the SP12 to keep its cost down, so it ended up costing more than twice as much? Twice as much as any previous SP car?
Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
And about the price, whatever it is, my dad told me something long, long time ago.
An object is worth whatever its owner is willing to part with it for.
I personally, am definitely not crazy about this car, but so what? I have a friend who tells me that any female under 250 pounds is not a real woman. Will I go to bed with a woman like that? Heck no. But who am I to tell him that he is waisting his money buying some land Hypo drinks...................
People spend more money than what this car costs on "art" that my 5 year old could have created. And it does not take them from point A to point B and it does not make cool sounds and it does not turn heads.

[Noblesse Oblige]

Appearance is a matter of opinion? Yes... and no. There are rules of aesthetics that are taught in good art and design schools. This creation violates the one about mixing themes; it leads to discord to the eye. There is nothing subtle about it. You know it looks bad when you look at it but you may not know why, but it is there.

What is interesting is not that Mr. Clapton commissioned this redesign, rather that Ferrari would consent to letting it out the door.

[lucky_13_2002]

Originally Posted by Noblesse Oblige

Appearance is a matter of opinion? Yes... and no. There are rules of aesthetics that are taught in good art and design schools. This creation violates the one about mixing themes; it leads to discord to the eye. There is nothing subtle about it. You know it looks bad when you look at it but you may not know why, but it is there.

What is interesting is not that Mr. Clapton commissioned this redesign, rather that Ferrari would consent to letting it out the door.

I agree with you. At the same time I look back at the SP1 and remember that it drew similar reaction from a lot of people. I wasn't its fan either. And then few years down the road we have the gorgeous Italia which shares quite few design elements with the SP1.
Then I look back at that golden thing based on the 599 that at the time looked like an atrocity to me and a lot of people. Now when I look at some pictures of it I find a lot of things from it on the new F12, which according to everyone (it seems ) on here is gorgeous.
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some things from that SP12 appear tweaked a little on the 458's replacement.

[-CD-]

V12 would be the detail which i need to find my peace with this creation!

With the 458 engine it is a horrible expensive 458 with a retrodesign bodykit in my eyes...

I respect that Clapton have the balls and bucks to start this project and that
Ferrari did it but i don´t like it.

I wonder that Ferrari work out that project but on the other side blocked a great project like the new stratos...

Greetings Christian

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by lucky_13_2002

I wouldn't be surprised if I see some things from that SP12 appear tweaked a little on the 458's replacement.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but in my mind all the 'things' from the SP12 are Boxer elements on a 458. Why would they find their way onto the 458 replacement?


Onno

[Noblesse Oblige]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Perhaps I'm missing something, but in my mind all the 'things' from the SP12 are Boxer elements on a 458. Why would they find their way onto the 458 replacement?


Onno

Onno, You make a lot of sense and I hope you are right. It is 'gawdawful.'

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by arizonaitalian

My earlier post, however, was looking for some more definitive proof, that's all. Sounds like no one has it at this point...

This is why I didn't respond because many of you just refuse to read, believe, or remember what is being posted. But for the last time I will summarise.

1. Factory told me. As the 'depth' of your research showed.
2. Napolis posted the engine capacity officially recorded at the DVLA (UK car registry) in this thread. Exactly the same as a 458 engine.
3. The engine sounds exactly like a 458 engine in the videos posted on the internet.


Onno

[markpeboxer]

Maybe it's just hard for some of us old guys to let go of some of the more special things in our lives from "back in the day". Boxers were pretty unbelievable once upon a time. From the obvious perspective it can appear as why make something into something else it wasn't designed to be, but possibly to him its a special trip back to a special time.

Maybe this time it won't end up wrecked and on his next album cover.

He's a class act with a creative and cleaver mind - and as anyone who makes their living through their creativity knows - the only one you have to answer to is your heart and your spirit, if you care at all about the quality of your creativity or the length of your career.

Someday - when many of us will be long gone - somebody will order SP375 and make it look like a 458 - and probably most just won't get it. Everytime he gets in and turns the key however he will, and thats all that matters.

These things are are still art to some of us.

[sherpa23]

Originally Posted by markpeboxer

Maybe it's just hard for some of us old guys to let go of some of the more special things in our lives from "back in the day". Boxers were pretty unbelievable once upon a time. From the obvious perspective it can appear as why make something into something else it wasn't designed to be, but possibly to him its a special trip back to a special time.

Maybe this time it won't end up wrecked and on his next album cover.

He's a class act with a creative and cleaver mind - and as anyone who makes their living through their creativity knows - the only one you have to answer to is your heart and your spirit, if you care at all about the quality of your creativity or the length of your career.

Someday - when many of us will be long gone - somebody will order SP375 and make it look like a 458 - and probably most just won't get it. Everytime he gets in and turns the key however he will, and thats all that matters.

These things are are still art to some of us.

Well said.

[Jdriver]

Personally I don't care for the style modifications in the cAr but has been said many times here in this thread if Mr Clapton likes it and he's paying for it so be it. At it's fore I is still a Ferrari.

[JeremyJon]

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar127446.html

[MisterMaranello]

http://www.ferrari.com/English/GT_Sp...c-clapton.aspx

May have been posted already, but what the heck. From Ferrari Magazine/Ferrari.com.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by lucky_13_2002

I kind of don't understand something. Please excuse me if it sounds like I am doubting what is said by different contributors to the forum, but I was looking at the latest Cavalino magazine issue and the market values of the cars. And what is said on here money wise does not make much sense.
First off, when the P4/5 came out it was all over all sorts of media, that Jim paid 6 million dollars for its creation and now the numbers stated on here seem to be like a third of that.
Then if you look at the values listed in the mag for all the other SP Ferraris, none of them are as high as what is claimed that the SP12 costs.
Something does not jive here.
Also doing certain things in a certain way were deemed cost prohibitive, but it seems they were done with the P4/5 but not to the SP12 to keep its cost down, so it ended up costing more than twice as much? Twice as much as any previous SP car?
Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
And about the price, whatever it is, my dad told me something long, long time ago.
An object is worth whatever its owner is willing to part with it for.
I personally, am definitely not crazy about this car, but so what? I have a friend who tells me that any female under 250 pounds is not a real woman. Will I go to bed with a woman like that? Heck no. But who am I to tell him that he is waisting his money buying some land Hypo drinks...................
People spend more money than what this car costs on "art" that my 5 year old could have created. And it does not take them from point A to point B and it does not make cool sounds and it does not turn heads.

Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina was made before the Ferrari SP system existed. It did not cost $6MM USD or anything close to that. Ferrari's SP program has limitations which Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina didn't. As I understand it Ferrari's SP program requires that the Windshield, doors, headlights and bumpers remain as the cost to Homologate these for structures for a one off isn't something Ferrari is willing to spend. PF did spend this money and Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina does have unique Windshield, bumpers, doors and headlights and over 200 uniquely engineered systems and still costs MUCH less than the figures quoted for Eric's car. Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina was made outside of the Ferrari system and even though Ferrari came to embace it as an official Ferrari that door is now shut hard by the SP program.