Engine Removal for 612 timing belts?

Engine does not need to be removed to do timing belts. If they are adjusting timing that is a different story, but if it is a simple belt service there is no need.

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Jerry- Just like the 575M, with essentially the same engine, no engine removal is necessary for changing belts or degreeing the cams. As a matter of fact, engine removal is not even necessary to remove the heads and do a valve job, which your engine will not need for decades.

Just had my belts done in June.

 

Right, no engine out for belt service. Never heard the timing thing. One thing to brace yourself for though is the cam seals, if they've never been done. Mine were bone dry. You can only inspect them when you're into the belt service and if they're found to be leaking, you're in for another $2k to replace them.

 

Bob- On the 575M and 612, the cam seals can be changed without removing the cams, so not as bad as it used to be. Mine were just done, even though they were not leaking, when the cams were degreed and covers and intake manifolds were removed. The early intake manifold gaskets on these engines were very poor, so on early 612s, it is worthwhile changing to the new style metal intake manifold gaskets during the cambelt change.

Jerry- Price for belt change depends on whether you do a lock and swap or degree the cams. My first belt change was a lock and swap and the second was a full-up degreeing of the cams. The latter runs nearly twice as much and was $5300 on my 575M including fluid and filter swaps. Likely in the $3000 range for a lock and swap and annual fluids and filters.

 

I would ship my car to Brian Crall before I did that.

 

Jerry- Affirmative, no problem. The 612 even has timing marks on the rear of the cams that were dead on when we degreed my cams. Have to use a mirror to see them, but they are there.

Are they telling you they want to remove the engine? That is not called for in the factory workshop manual so they must be making it up as they go along. Heard similar from another dealer that wanted to do the same for a 360 cambelt change. Ridiculous.

 

Cool. I didn't know if the cams needed to be removed. I was just told it was another $2k to replace the seals, if they needed it. I take it that seems excessive.

I got lucky and the intake gaskets had already been replaced on my lady when I picked her up.

 

Now I have to believe that a Ferrari dealer can't be that incompetent. I mean this isn't a Jiffy Lube shop. So that leaves outright fraud, or am I missing something?

 

Paul- No clue without a detailed estimate. Since these cars were sold up through number 3025 in 2010 or so, they should still have mechanics competent to do the change. Another dealer, maybe the same one, wanted to pull the engine on a 360 to do a belt change.

 

Bob- It would definitely be more to replace those seals, but mine were not leaking after 10 years and my car is one year older than yours (Nov 03). You may have to remove the cam covers and intake manifold to change the seals, have to ask one of the pros, and that runs into parts, time and money.

 

Yeah, I was told it would be 2000 in addition if they were already in there replacing the belts.

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Bob- That sounds about right for the difference between a lock and swap and degreeing the cams, which requires removing and replacing (and sealing) much more stuff. We replaced mine even though the seals were not leaking.

 

I thought about it and maybe should have. Time will tell. I was already in for $8k getting her sorted.

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That is absurd. I just had mine done at an authorized Ferrari dealer-- I don't remember how much it was, but it was nothing like that. I think you could ship it to them and get it back and be ahead on both money and time!

 

Don- Some strange stories coming out of south Texas. Apparently a weird group.

 

Apparently!

 

Actually I shouldn't have used the term "fraud". What I meant to use was "gouging".

 

Maybe there is a misunderstanding. I would call back with your new knowledge and ask them to explain, making sure there are no misunderstandings regarding car model and work to be performed. If they insist I would ask for explanation as your understanding is that it isn't necessary, and let them know that you will consult with FNA before committing to the service.

 

Agreed. I'd suggest bringing the car down to Florida. Lots of good dealers who have to remain competitive, and many Master Ferrari techs working in independent shops.

 

I just had full 10k service with all belts and paid less than $7k, no engine removal, work took about 3 days.

 

From a logical perspective it wouldn't make sense for a front engined car to be engineered in a way that the engine needs to come out for belt changes. Maybe they are just making up quotes. Also see if that is what the manager says as it could have been just one employee that misunderstood the situation.

 

My 575M (same engine and drivetrain as 612, except shorter) had a 10 year service (first belt change was a lock and swap) from an independent and it was $5300 and took a week. That included degreeing the cams and new SKF tensioner bearings/pulleys from Ricambi/Hill Engineering.