Automatically Shifting to N | FerrariChat

Automatically Shifting to N

Discussion in '612/599' started by HogPilot, Jul 21, 2014.

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  1. HogPilot

    HogPilot Karting
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 9, 2014
    139
    North Texas
    Full Name:
    Todd Williams
    Guys, my car has begun doing something that appears strange to me. It's still new (to me) as I've only had it about 7 or 8 weeks so this may be an issue I need serviced or it could be my technique of driving it. Thought I'd throw it out here for discussion.

    As per several other threads on the matter, when coming to stop (red light, stop sign, etc.), I usually downshift manually to 2nd and let the computer make the final shift into 1st. Then I'll select N if I anticipate anything more than a few seconds at full stop.

    A couple of times lately, if I slow, as if coming to a full stop, but never quite make it to a complete stop, for instance rolling down to 1 or 2 mph before the light turns green, I'll attempt to take off but will find the car has shifted into Neutral instead of 1st! Then I'll have to bring the car to a complete stop after all with the foot on the brake before it allows me to select 1st again.

    I'm thinking the car either is showing signs of needing a clutch (it has 22,000 miles) or somehow, the car is thinking I've stopped completely and my foot is riding very lightly on the brake, thereby causing the N shift in the same manner as you get after stopping at a red light without your foot "firmly" on the brake.

    Anyone have experience with this?

    Thanks.
     
  2. southnc

    southnc Formula 3

    Dec 25, 2013
    1,765
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Adam
    Have you checked to see if it behaves differently when in Sport mode vs Normal Mode?
     
  3. HogPilot

    HogPilot Karting
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 9, 2014
    139
    North Texas
    Full Name:
    Todd Williams
    Sport vs Race? Actually I have not. Do you think there would be a difference in the logic? I'll give it a try to notice if anything changes between the two settings. I usually drive it in one of those two settings so it's very possible I'm getting this result in one of the other, but not both as it doesn't seem to do it every time.
     
  4. southnc

    southnc Formula 3

    Dec 25, 2013
    1,765
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Adam
    Not entirely sure.

    Since you did not specify which model (599 or 612), year, or options, I was just going by my own '07 612 HGTS; I only have a Sport Mode - no Manetinno.

    Perhaps you can provide additional info about your vehicle to help narrow it down.

     
  5. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    If car is moving and you are in neutral you don't need to press the brake to select gear (just hit one of the paddles: "up" for low'ish rpm = higher gear, "down" for slightly higher rpm = lower gear). There is certainly no need to come to a complete stop to select gear.
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,056
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #6 tazandjan, Jul 21, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2014
    Affirmative, you can select a gear from neutral while rolling by hitting either the upshift or downshift lever, but not below about 3 or so mph. Both upshift and downshift levers, however, give you exactly the same gear. I always use the downshift lever because the gear the system selects will be too high and you almost always need a downshift to get a usable gear. I used to think the downshift lever gave a lower gear until I actually tested it and the same gear was selected at the same speed with either paddle.

    That, however, is not the problem. She should never give you neutral without you selecting it unless she is seeing a problem with the F1 system or the clutch. Neutral is the F1 system's safety net for problems to prevent you from being stuck in an intersection, stalled in gear, with no way to move her.

    I would have someone with an SD3 take a look at her and hopefully it is something simple like low fluid, PIS mis-set, etc. The 599 clutch is pretty tough, so here is hoping she does not need a new clutch. On the earlier V12s like the 575 and early 612, clutch wear can be visually checked with a borescope and checking the throw-out bearing pin projection. Not sure if that works on the 599 twin plate clutch.
     
  7. HogPilot

    HogPilot Karting
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 9, 2014
    139
    North Texas
    Full Name:
    Todd Williams
    Actually, the car will not allow me to select 1st when it does this until I then bring it to a stop, place my foot on the brake, then select 1st. If I attempt to just upshift with it still rolling (albeit at a very slow speed of maybe 1 or 2 MPH), it will not select 1st.

    Under normal circumstances whereby I select N while still rolling, your are absolutely correct. But this is very specific in that I'm letting the computer make the final shift from 2nd to 1st approaching the stop, and instead of selecting 1st, it's selecting N. Again, it's entirely possible that the car is selecting 1st, THEN selecting N because I've got my foot lightly on the brake, BUT it's doing this even though I haven't come to a complete stop.

    The car is a 2007 599.

    Thanks for the input guys.
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,056
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Yup, not below about 3 mph. Read my edits above.
     
  9. HogPilot

    HogPilot Karting
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 9, 2014
    139
    North Texas
    Full Name:
    Todd Williams
    Thanks Terry. I'll take it in to see if we can get it diagnosed properly.
     
  10. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
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    Jes
    When coming up to a potential full stop I always hit both paddles to put it in neutral, and I can swear that no matter how slow I am going I don't need to come to a complete stop to select gear - this is a 2007 612 HGTC. I feel sure I would have noticed, and I feel sure I would have been through such a scenario - maybe not... I will try it for the sake of curiosity.
     
  11. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,056
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Yup, only way to find out is to try it, just like me with the upshift and downshift paddles.
     
  12. HogPilot

    HogPilot Karting
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 9, 2014
    139
    North Texas
    Full Name:
    Todd Williams
    Yes but the difference with your scenario and mine is that you are manually selecting N. In my scenario, the car's computer is selecting N instead of 1st as I allow it to make the final downshift from 2nd to 1st. If I perform the shift to N myself, as you describe in your scenario, you're absolutely correct. Selecting an up or down shift does NOT require the car to be brought to a stop, foot on the brake, then shift to 1st.

    This is why I'm inquiring here. I think there may be an issue with my transmission as this doesn't seem normal from what I've read about the F1.
     
  13. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
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    Jes
    I understand that. The latter was just an exchange with Taz over the curiosity of what it actually does. Anyway, hopefully you will get it resolved painlessly :)
     
  14. HogPilot

    HogPilot Karting
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 9, 2014
    139
    North Texas
    Full Name:
    Todd Williams
    No worries!
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,056
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Todd- Fingers crossed for an inexpensive solution.
     

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