is it suprising the GTOs havent participated in the marekt rally? | FerrariChat

is it suprising the GTOs havent participated in the marekt rally?

Discussion in '612/599' started by ttforcefed, Sep 6, 2014.

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  1. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,772
    from what I can tell GTO prices haven't moved much...am I wrong? is it just too new? we are seeing ford gt, CS, CGT cross msrp - im curious why the GTOs aren't commanding more money. The apertas seem to have rallied.
     
  2. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3

    May 3, 2014
    2,079
    UK
    The fact I can sell today my 599 GTO for the price I paid for it 3 years ago and with 3.5K miles on the clock is fine by me.

    Rumours are Ferrari made around 750 599 GTOs (according to reliable sources there are 80 RHD in the UK alone). So prices unlikely to move rapidly. The SA Aperta is a different ball game marketwise, though it does nothing for me.

    However 10 years from now - assuming we're still allowed to drive V12 monsters - the 599 GTO will accelerate its climb. Those of us fortunate to own one know it is a truly epic car to drive, and look at and is destined for greatness.
     
  3. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
    844
    New York
    Full Name:
    Stephen H. Frankel
    Candidly speaking, I'm glad as I wouldn't have been able to buy mine in July had it been much more costly. Car is only 3-4 years old and its still going for MSRP (or more) in the US. My 13 458 Italia plummeted in value after 2 years. I think the GTO needs a few more years of maturation before the market catches on. I concur with Camlet1 that in 10 years time the GTO will accelerate in value. To me it is a legitimate modern classic that should be placed in the Ferrari "Supercar" category (ie. 288GTO, F40, F50, Enzo and LaF). Personally, as a driver, I like the 599GTO better than ALL of the supposed Supercars (except the LaF and only because I haven't driven one yet). Wasn't the Enzo, which was more like a $700K+ car in 2002/2003 selling at only a little over MSRP for the first 3-4 years after release ? Maybe 5 years post release the Enzo's were moving at $800K-$900K range (or so). I though even as recent as 2010/2011 Enzos could be had for $1M or so. It wasn't until 2012, 2013, 2014 that the Enzo (and many other F cars) prices went nuts. Basically, it took the Enzo 10 years to accelerate its appreciation. I think a 10-15 year old GTO has a reasonable chance of rising in value too. Won't speculate how much.
     
  4. glob1971

    glob1971 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 3, 2011
    442
    Czech Republic
    Hello,

    I just bought a 599 GTO last month, and was collecting several information past 6 months such as number of GTO's produced, market price and information of owners + friends working in Ferrari and the outcome is :

    - 599 GTO is a keeper and a fantastic car, most of us know this already.
    - there we're at least 830 GTO's produced
    - price in EU is slightly increasing, Y/Y almost 5%

    Most people expected prices to fall when F12 started to sell - it didn't - most people expect prices to fall when the sport version of the F12 will be announced - I am sure it will not. It is just a question of time, IMO 599 GTO prices will continue to rise slightly until it will become some day a classic.
     
  5. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,860
    I agree- they made a lot- probably like 1/5 or 1/6 of total 599 production!! And there are some who cynically see it as just a sport model version of the 599. I don't but there are enough who do. For those people, they question the price spread to the GTB and the GTBs have fallen. So opposing forces at work which is keeping the price fairly stable.
     
  6. MARMIST

    MARMIST Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2014
    1,338
    1) can understand
    2) 1 of 599 huh ? :D
    3) yeah the hell about that, In italy you can find it for less than 300k euros AND depreciating, PLUS u can have heavy discounts if u pay all in cash immediately and can deduct taxes if u bring it outside the country.

    I don't see their prices rising anywhere except MAYBE for collector editions (1 mile) in the US tbh.
     
  7. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,151
    GMT + 3
    Its a derivative of a 599, not a total new model. When you compare it to 288 GTO F40 etc etc

    Regardless of the "GTO" badging its the "Scuderia/Speciale" of the 599, from my POV.
     
  8. Woppum

    Woppum Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
    676
    There are two gto advertised in the uk in rhd. One at £480k the other at £460. I went to look at the £480 today. Just not a realistic price when I can pick a similar car up with on 4k more miles for £250-270k. Trouble is I really need a drive in one to see.
     
  9. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
    844
    New York
    Full Name:
    Stephen H. Frankel
    It's a street legal version of the 599XX and not based on the 599 GTB. It's a detuned 599XX. Anything to the contrary is not fact based and nonsense. A GTO will decimate any purported super car save a LaF. I get a good laugh more ANC more from the wannabes.
     
  10. simsko

    simsko F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2012
    3,635
    Too early. Until there is more myth than actual driver feedback like on early garage queens, prices won't move that much. It is only when cars become myths that prices start to reflect it. Then the herd mentality kicks in and starts to drive prices. A car is only worth what another person is willing to pay for it.
     
  11. glob1971

    glob1971 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 3, 2011
    442
    Czech Republic
    Please let us know where you found those less than 300 K€ prices, and those Italian cars for sale. There are none in Italy for sale except a bianco Fuji and dark grey over 330 K€ (Was trying to negotiate, didn't work out). There were 2 other GTO for sale in Italy, sold by a car rental and with unclear history. If you want to buy a GTO with clean history and +/- 5000 km, minimum 330 K€ today.
     
  12. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
    6,323
    UK
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Sorry I don't know where you get that idea from? Just check the boring old F12's Fiorano times.
     
  13. nads

    nads Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2008
    875
    London, UK
    I suggest you do some proper research before you make 'ill-informed' comments on the board.
     
  14. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,151
    GMT + 3
    Hello,

    It has the 599 shape so its a derivative of a 599 and same applies of a 599XX. Type 599 GTO on Wikipedia and see what you get, a 599 page and all of the derivative are mentioned there..that doesn't apply for a 288 GTO which isn't listed under a 328 for example.

    The 288 GTO is a totally different ferrari than the road going model, same applies to the F40 , F50 and Enzo. Hold your horses, I wasn't arguing with you and was reply to the OP in regards to the markets of these cars.

    I have nothing against these cars, I like how they look and sound and whether they would appreciate in the future or not "god knows".

    I am glad I gave you a good laugh, and in the words of Oscar Wilde “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” :)

    Best Regards,

    Mohammad.
     
  15. nads

    nads Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2008
    875
    London, UK
    UK GTO for £250k......really?!?
     
  16. elipinski

    elipinski Formula 3

    May 14, 2006
    1,390
    Full Name:
    Emanuel
    But Felisa says, the GTO is a derivative of the XX and not the GTB. Regards-e

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHab1qCzL7M
     
  17. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,151
    GMT + 3
  18. speed racer

    speed racer Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2008
    1,462
    Burr Ridge IL.
    Full Name:
    PJ
    Thanks,E....We should have that clip pasted to the header in the GTO section and have it go out in every GTO post positive or negative. All of us owners spend way too much time defending the reputation of these incredible Ferrari's.
     
  19. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
    844
    New York
    Full Name:
    Stephen H. Frankel
    Mohammad,

    Education is the key to success here. GTO owners receive voluminous books regarding the heritage of their steed. There is also a Ferrari video explaining the GTO. Put simply, the GTO is NOT based on the 599GTB. Rather it is based on the track only 599XX. The GTO does use the 599GTB body shape but thats pretty much it. The GTO engine and drivetrain are derived from the 599XX. In fact the GTO is just a slightly detuned 599XX. Furthermore, while the GTO was not homologated for a specific racing class (ie. like GT3 or GT2) it was homologated from the track only 599XX. Ferrari mentions 2 other specific areas for which the GTO was homologated but to be candid I've never heard of either one of them. Also you indicate that the 288GTO is a separate car from the 308. I'd respectfully disagree. The 288GTO is based on the 308 series bodywork but obviously has totally different engine, drivetrain, etc. The 599GTO is literally no different than the 288GTO with the sole exception being the homologation issue. If you are a serious purchaser you should unequivocally get some seat time in a 599GTB and a 599GTO. They are completely different animals from power to handling to sound, etc. To say that the GTO is just a badge thrown on the 599GTB with a few extra HP is the height of lack of knowledge (to be polite).
     
  20. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
    844
    New York
    Full Name:
    Stephen H. Frankel
    I'm loathe to "debate" the F12 vs. GTO Fiorano lap times as I think they are useless in the real World. We all know that the F12 is a great car. Period. That being said, IMHO the F12 is "soft", heavy and to peaky with respect to its free spinning engine when compared to the raw, hard and tractable GTO. I'm still waiting to be dusted on the road by an F12. Hasn't happened yet (although I'm sure it will occur eventually). Then again, my road isn't a racetrack. I can't argue with you about Fiorano laptimes as the #'s speak for themselves. I can only tell you that in the "real World" of the street the GTO is a very tough competitor with easily accessible power and I think much less wheelspin than the F12. The GTO does have wheelspin but it catches traction and just digs down like a legit racing car and simply hammers away. I believe the GTO has some sort of electronic system to put its power down in a manner that is totally different than the 599GTB. Again, not sure what its called, but the car just stays glued and seeks traction everywhere and at all times like a true racing car. My 458 Italia never felt that way and never had this capability. I digress. We all know that theoretically in a straight line the F12 is faster than the GTO, but thats ONLY if you can access that power (ie. limit wheelspin). Sorry if that doesn't help you, but thats my personal experience so far with the GTO. I'm going to go out now to look for some F12's to beat up ;)
     
  21. elipinski

    elipinski Formula 3

    May 14, 2006
    1,390
    Full Name:
    Emanuel
    Thank you speed racer. Appreciate. Here some more evidence, what Ferrari says, where the 599 GTO has its Genes from.Of course, the body shape reminds one of the 599 GTB, but thats about it in regards to similarity, IMVHO. Best - e-

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-l-m2M-UU4]Ferrari 599 GTO -- The engine - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptqx-Rk3VIw]Ferrari 599 GTO -- Aerodynamics - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCOKkuqdCrs]Ferrari 599 GTO -- Dynamics and human-machine interface - YouTube[/ame]
     
  22. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,151
    GMT + 3
    #22 MM355, Sep 7, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
    Hello again,

    I had 2008 GTB which is now long gone. I traded it in for a 2009 SLR roadster. Thank you for the information and at first didnt like the way you labeled me as a wannabe in your first reply, I found that offending as I am a car collector. If you check my threads in this forum you would see what cars i am fortunate of owning. :)
     
  23. speed racer

    speed racer Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2008
    1,462
    Burr Ridge IL.
    Full Name:
    PJ
    Excellent Post, E. If someone doesn't get it after beong shown all of this data.....Well than I doubt anything on this green earth will.
     
  24. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
    844
    New York
    Full Name:
    Stephen H. Frankel
    I apologize for the pejorative characterization, but I feel very strongly that 99.9% of the negative GTO comments come from people who have never driven a GTO, let alone owned one. Many of the comments are literally farcical. It goes on and on even with respect to info. from GTO owners. 750 made, 830 made blah blah blah. I "heard" from a "reliable" source that they only made 500 GTO's, no make that 450. Hahaha I give up !!!!!
     
  25. g4titan

    g4titan Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 6, 2010
    1,196
    Around
    Full Name:
    Nico
    And for a "fact" only 150 made it to the states ;)

    Interestingly enough the ones I've been tracking have all been sold....
     

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