Progressivly worse starting 612 | FerrariChat

Progressivly worse starting 612

Discussion in '612/599' started by m81b, Sep 7, 2014.

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  1. m81b

    m81b Karting

    Oct 20, 2007
    82
    Minnesota
    Full Name:
    Erik
    My 2005 612 has been become more difficult to start this year. It began with a slightly weak start, to a shudder, to requiring 2 attempts, to now requiring 3 attempts and giving it throttle through full ignition.

    Once it is running- no problem. If the car is started the same day- no problem.

    I’m also getting anomalous low pressure reading from tires – when they are fine and reading at or higher than required pressure.

    Weak fuel pump? Weak battery (which might explain the TPS problem)? The battery stays on a battery tender- but always takes a full day to return to green after a drive.

    Any owners ever had a similar problem?
     
  2. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,214
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Battery is a strong possibility.
     
  3. Allen F

    Allen F Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2006
    282
    AZ / PNW / NYC
    Full Name:
    Allen
    If the battery checks out ok, I would recommend disconnecting the battery cleaning the battery posts with sand paper and cleaning the cable connectors with a wire brush.

    Basically, my point is that if there is ANY film or build up of corrosion at the connection it could cause those starting problems you're explaining. Even the process of the car trying to turn over could cause enough movement to give a "better" connection.

    One time on my boat ... I thought I kept leaving something turned on because three weeks in a row I returned to "no power". I took the battery out had it tested, it was "fine" then re-installed and it worked fine. The next week the same problem, then the next week too.

    Finally I purchased a NEW battery even though I was told "the batter was fine" because what else could it be, right? Well, two weeks after installing the new battery I had the same problem! My boat neighbor said "here run this wire brush over the cable connectors and see if that works" - you know what? It DID work, and continued to work. Even though I couldn't see any corrosion it WAS there.

    As for the TMPS, there are batteries at the bottom of each stem that wear out. It sounds like you need need batteries, which requires removal of your tires, replacing the batteries connected to the step and re calibrating.

    Hope some of that was helpful.

    Good luck!
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Allen- You cannot replace the batteries in the TPMS sensors, but you can replace the sensors.

    I use a battery terminal spray and that prevents corrosion of the main battery terminals.
     
  5. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    1,259
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    My 2007 has had similar TPMS issues. If the terminals are clean, I'd replace the battery. FYI, it's not east to change.
     
  6. m81b

    m81b Karting

    Oct 20, 2007
    82
    Minnesota
    Full Name:
    Erik
    Wow- you are correct. I think the vehicle was entirely built around the battery. It is going to have to wait until this weekend when I can dedicate the time to get it out.

    It is not a OEM or even direct replacement- the previous owner said no to the $250+ battery and used something that fit... although it obviously worked.
     
  7. evanmcm

    evanmcm Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 15, 2009
    69
    Chicago
    You mention that it takes a while to hit "green" (on the tender I'm guessing) after you drive it? That seems a bit unusual since the alternator should keep it charged while driving. How long of a drive are you noticing this after?
     
  8. devil boy

    devil boy Karting

    Apr 21, 2014
    97
    Bath, UK
    I have had a similar issue today. Started with it taking about 12 hours for the battery tender to go from the middle red light to the green light and today the warning came up of 'check tyre pressure' but the pressure was fine. So not sure if I need a new battery or a new TPMS or both. Just looked in the instruction manual and it states 'battery may only be removed by Ferrari Service Network personnel'. Is that correct?
     
  9. m81b

    m81b Karting

    Oct 20, 2007
    82
    Minnesota
    Full Name:
    Erik
    Update-

    Yep, it was the battery. I replaced it today and all of the issues I had were cured.
    For any do it yourselfers- I used a 94REXT sold by O'Reilly. Fit perfectly with the positive terminal block.
     
  10. devil boy

    devil boy Karting

    Apr 21, 2014
    97
    Bath, UK
    Did you follow the guide in the owners manual for battery disconnect or any other tips you can share?
     
  11. m81b

    m81b Karting

    Oct 20, 2007
    82
    Minnesota
    Full Name:
    Erik
    I used the battery disconnect switch before disconnecting the battery- nothing else.

    I took the battery in to be tested- which is a heavy draw, charge, then pass/fail. The battery passed, however these tests are not accurate enough for specific output irregularities- more that it will start your 1995 F150. I decided to purchase new battery anyway- and problems solved.

    I also own a 2002 Maserati 4200 Spyder- similar set of circumstances, although it did not have the 3 attempt starting issue the 612 had. New battery eliminated the sensor errors I was experiencing.

    I do use battery tenders on everything that sits more than a few days between drives.
     
  12. BJJ

    BJJ Formula 3
    BANNED

    Feb 25, 2014
    1,301
    #12 BJJ, Oct 2, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
    Interesting, similar with my Quattroporte (sharing a lot of components).

    The car started well though, by suddenly the computer, clock etc. made a frequent reset to default values. The main dealer proposed to replace the complete computer unit (few thousands €), this were due to allegedly well known contact problems. Didn´t have that done and tested all connectors etc. myselfe. No change. I then observed that this reset occured every time during the starter turning over. "Just for fun" I bought a new battery and, surprize, guess was right, after installation everything was fine again. Had I accepted the dealers expertize ...

    It seems that some electronic components have relatively high voltage requirements so that voltage drop during start may cause malfunctions. If a battery is still fine for starting but just beginning to become weak, you will not really notice when cranking, but the voltage drop will increase.

    At least with the QP this is a design fault. One would expect the electronic components to have supply voltages of say 5V, whereby the 5V are obtained from a voltage stabilizing circuit with 12V (battery) input, leaving enough room for input variations. But apparently at least some components are operated near 12V, so that stabilizing circuits, if any, will fail during cranking (with a battery beginning to become weak) and leave the components with too low voltage for proper function.
     
  13. NickKerigan

    NickKerigan Karting

    Mar 17, 2011
    165
    Oxford, UK
    Full Name:
    Nick Kerigan
    Thanks, interesting experience.
    I'm getting the same starting (though not electronics) problem with my 612.
    Have booked in to get battery replaced in next week or so will report back if that fixes the issue too.
     

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