Trade 599 for a 575

If you are in it for the "fun factor", go to a dealer and test drive a 599 and see what you think. It may be an easy decision one way or another for you based on a test drive. Though, if you are not in it for the investment why worrying about "depreciating vs. appreciating" asset?

 

I will not give you my 599. Because I have a 550 also and this is anyway better than the 575 F1

 

I would love to trade my 575 for a 599 here in Canada, but so far the 599 is still quite a bit higher in comparison to what 575s are going for, as opposed to what's happening south of the border and in Europe. Part of the contributing factor in my case is that my 575 is higher mileage at 39000 miles (its an American car) which makes it a tougher trade.
Clyde

 

The reason for the question is that in both the US and Europe, 575M F1 and 599 F1 prices are overlapping.

 

I wonder why the markets are so different ?
US to Canada to Europe

For me it seems, that in the US the top for 550/575 isn't reached, and in Europe we are at the top.
Also in Europe the bottom for the 599 was 1 year before and they started to go up.

Good night, Daniel

 

When you're running through the gears in either car, I imagine no one will be able to distinguish the difference in your smiles

(You can't lose whatever you decide)

 

I agree completely, but according to the tests you'll be able to run through the gears a lot quicker in the 599 than on the 575 (though I haven't tried it myself).


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Igore the comments that the 599 is "oversized", it feels extremely agile and the actual size difference with a 550/575 is negligible.

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The 456 GT is longer and only 4 cm narrower than the 599, and you never hear any comments about the 456 being "huge".

599 GTB / 456 GT

Wheel base. 2750mm / 2600mm
Length. 4665mm / 4730mm
Width. 1962mm / 1920mm
Height. 1336mm / 1300mm


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My opinion, assuming one is willing and able:

Have a 550? Add a 599
Have a 575? Replace it with a 599

While looks are subjective, I think anybody considering trading one car for another already likes the potentially new car enough to own. Obviously that's an assumption incorporated into my hypothesis here.

The most important component to me is the experience. Given the transmission and character of both cars, my impression is that the 599 obliterates the 575 in terms of experience based on performance, connection, and drama. It's bombastic, frenetic, and mega. Pride of ownership is also a "how you feel" factor, and again, is subjective. The Enzo engine holds a lot of merit in terms of pride of ownership. The 575 is classically beautiful, while the 599 is aggressive and mean. That being said, the 599 isn't gratuitously overstyled, which is why I think it will fare well over time.

In terms of economics, long-term I would rank-order value by 550, 599, 575 (what those values will be is up for debate!). I think the 550 is the simplest, has ties to historic lineage, and will fare best over the long-haul. I think the 599 is a major car and will come into it's own in the coming years- the styling cues, the NA V12, it still retains elements of craftsmanship, provenance, and detail over current CAD design and modern plastics, etc. I could even see preference for Superfast F1's versus double clutches. Currently, I think 575 pricing is supported by 550 pricing and new car pricing, which will continue to define the 575 trends (both up and down). I don't share the opinion that 575/599 pricing will intersect and continue to diverge. The 599 is too much car for the money. Considering the number of people buying 599's here in the last few weeks/months, that's becoming more evident.

In summary, if you have the itch and it's within reach, a 599 should be a real consideration. There is a decent amount of duplication on the 575 that's bested by the 599. It's a brutally impressive car. My feeling is that this conversation is similar to what we held around 550's about 5-6 years ago.

That being said, can't go wrong either way. The 575 is a gorgeous V12 Ferrari. This "splitting hairs" is in such rarefied air that everybody who can experience this stuff is privileged.

-Joe

 

Joe that's probably among the best and most positive assessments I've read here. I feel that too many people here have some type of a negative slant when one discusses a comparison between the 575 and the 599, and its usually in favour of the 575 mainly based on its appearance. As you've said, however, its all subjective.
Ideally it would be great if as an owner of a 575 I could just add a 599, but in my case I am sure that if I am able to get a 599, the only way I'll be able to do so is if I use my 575 in trade towards a 599.
Your hypothesis is correct, I obviously like the 599 otherwise I wouldn't even be considering it (and even though its still presently out of my range). Your comments on the 599 (It's bombastic, frenetic, and mega) make it all that more appealing to me, and they are understandable to me as well because Ferrari tends to release new cars in general that completely obliterate the previous generation. As for whether the pricing will eventually intersect or not, with respect, its all conjecture just like everything else here, and I take it as another opinion. All I know for sure is that at least here in Canada, prices for 599s are still significantly higher than that for 575s (at least in my personal experience).
Finally you are absolutely correct in that either way, whether I hold on to my 575, replace it with a 599, or add a 599, I really can't go wrong either way because they are both beautiful and amazing front engine V12 Ferraris. Its almost not even a question of which car would make one happier, as I am already proud to own a 575. Its just a question of being able to sample ownership of another great Ferrari and to continue the happiness.
Clyde

 

Thanks Clyde.

Re: pricing, just to clarify- generally speaking, I don't think 599's will ever be worth less than 575's. At the moment, high mile 2007 599's are less than the top 5% 575's, but I don't take that as intersection. The averages and medians still show a large spread, to your point.

-Joe

 

Joe- The most valuable of the three you discuss 550, 575M, and 599 are three pedal versions of the latter two. Even early 575M 3 pedals with no options bring big bucks.

Everything the 550 does, the 575M does better, except most came with F1 instead of 3 pedals. Personally, except for value now, I do not consider F1 a disadvantage. All the 550 issues were solved with the 575M, plus more hp, torque, reliability, and better braking and ASR. 550 owners retrofit 575M parts to fix most problems on their 550s.

So I do not buy any of your conclusions. But then, I am a 575M owner who does not want a 599 or a 550.

 

I consider the 6-speed exceptions irrelevant in market pricing for the 88% of 575's and 99% of 599's that are F1, especially in the context of this conversation. The 246 manual 575's and 30 manual 599's are outrageous prices mainly because of rarity. My comment on that is that the values are due to manufactured rarity rather than outright magnificence- demand is grounded mainly on exclusivity rather than experiential dynamics.

Having driven a manual 575 I would say it's certainly very nice- but I wouldn't pick one over a 550. Subjective, of course, but it's my experience. Reasons include generally feeling softness and creaminess, quite different (and not ideal for me personally) from the 550. On manual 599's, I'd contend that they too are not 100% fantasy as one would think. Having driven a manual 430, I firmly believe the manual is not ideal given the general sensitivity and speed of the other inputs; I feel a similar characteristic-- just amplified-- in the 599 (which is F1). I can only imagine a similar experience with a manual 599 given the parallel. Of course, if the cars were designed primarily for traditional gated gearboxes I'm sure they'd be tremendous, but I've been underwhelmed as they felt like an unnatural and forced afterthought.

Regarding values of the non-manual 575's, the market has clearly spoken on 550 vs 575, regardless of 575's doing things "better." I think this proves that technical superiority doesn't trump the experience. In fact, you said it yourself in this same thread over in the 550/575/456 section:

This brings me back to my initial post in this thread. The situational context of Dakharris's manual 575 and his subjective view on looks are irrelevant to my point, which is in reference to his last sentence and your response. Again, like you said re: 575M vs. Lusso, experience reigns superior and ultimately and drives demand. I think the 599 F1 experience is superior the 575 F1- which supports my point that a 599 is a great option to trade into and also likely to be more valuable long-term.

Don't excise me from your incredible technical knowledge please.


-Joe

 

Sorry to throw a wrench into everyone's argument here but, Ferrari spends a lot of time in development of their V12 cars, perhaps more so than the V8s because they are more of a profit centre for them than the V8s are (according to Marchionne) even though they represent only 1/3 of annual sales for Ferrari. Logically then, and knowing that Ferrari sweats the details, though having admittedly only limited experience myself with Ferraris (my 575M is my 1 and only ever), I would logically then expect each successive Ferrari V12 model to offer an improved experience in every way from feel to performance to the previous model, which is what the car magazines who test them seem to bear out. Historically this seems to be the case. As human beings, personal feelings due to each individual's passion for an existing model, or a model they own themselves, do taint the bigger picture. Therefore I would logically expect the 575M to be better than the 550 in every way, as I would expect the 599 to be better than the 575M in every way, as I would expect the F12 to be better than the 599 in every way. In my opinion the only part up for debate are each model's aesthetic appeal to each individual.
Clyde

 

Joe- Very simplified view of 575M handling, which is very dependent on factors such as shock ECU and whether or not she has FHP. Easily adaptable to whatever an owner wants in terms of ride vs handling. It is impossible to generalize on 575M handling without knowing how she was outfitted from the factory and whether an owner updated her to later 575M specs.

I like 599s, but prefer the styling and smaller size of the 575M. And no, the smaller size is not a fallacy, with a 250 mm (10") smaller wheelbase for the Maranellos. An oft published photo highlights the size difference, even if one is Grigio Titanio and the other is Argento Nurburgring.

Not to worry, I never take knowledgeable differences of opinion personally, and you are knowledgeable.
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I had no idea.

 

Just to back up my point here are two videos. The first is from 2002, from Ferrari, where they compare the 575M F1 to the outgoing 550 around Fiorano with Luca Badoer (former F1 pilot) driving. It clearly shows the superiority of the 575M F1 over the 550. Likewise the 2nd video is of the 599 GTB driven by Chris Harris where he unequivocally states that the 599 monsters the 575M. Its only logical.
Clyde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGobsAf-fto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQdpNoPCd9o

 

I know where you can obtain a beautiful, very well taken care of Nero/Nero 599 with the HGTE package for cheap...

 

Where?
Clyde

 

Great debate, nonetheless. Exactly why different people have different cars. Now, the important question: blonde vs brunette?

 

Definitely brunette!
Clyde

 

people are crazy.....

 

Lol! Great line Fabio!
Clyde