Petrol Smell | FerrariChat

Petrol Smell

Discussion in '612/599' started by GianiCakes, Jul 12, 2016.

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  1. GianiCakes

    GianiCakes Karting

    Apr 5, 2014
    220
    Switzerland
    Still struggling with this on my OTO. Dealer has changed the carbon filter and now one of the intake manifolds. Problem is better and also seems to have changed in character. Before it mainly came in through an open window but now, only occasionally, it comes in strong through the airco but then is gone 10 seconds later. As far as I can make out this is related to being on overrun but not every time, almost like the car is belching too much fuel. This might only happen 3 or 4 times on a 30 mile run but I still feel (which may be psychological) like there is a slight lingering odour. I can never smell anything around the engine, perhaps the trunk but again not consistent.
    Drove the car vigorously (very enjoyable it was too) for 45 minutes with the airco off last night and no real issue. Could it be some residue still burning off?
    I need help from all the 612 whisperers out there!
     
  2. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2013
    1,259
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Shiv
    Your fuel pumps are most likely leaking. I replaced both. It's a known problem, the plastic cracks or breaks.
     
  3. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,346
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    In your previous thread you didn't say if the dealer checked the fuel pumps. If he didn't, you need to have him check them. Particularly since you get the odor in the trunk.
     
  4. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 20, 2008
    740
    Kansas City
    Full Name:
    Jason Hagen
    I replaced both fuel pumps on my 2006 612 when the fuel gauge started acting up. I did notice that the new pumps have a yellow plastic instead of the original white plastic. I assumed that means they changed to a better material.

    Also on the 612, if/when you replace the carbon filter it is very easy to install it backwards (take pictures of the original one in position before removing). Unfortunately it is not labeled well and the design allows for an easy backward installation of the input/put hoses if the unit is installed in a flipped position around the z-axis per se. This results in fuel odors.

    Finally, there is a "air intake" valve and filter in the same wheel well as the carbon filter (left rear) up high in the wheel well. It plays a role as well. Also, check your gas cap seal and for tightness.
     
  5. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2002
    3,202
    South England
    Full Name:
    Mark Collins
    The 612 is prone to have the fuel tank vent pipes crack as was common on the 550/575s giving rise to petrol fumes in the cabin. It's more likely to happen with a full tank or when pressurised
     
  6. GianiCakes

    GianiCakes Karting

    Apr 5, 2014
    220
    Switzerland
    Mark, That's an interesting possibility. The odour came through strong when I filled the car and it seems to have gotten better since it's run down to 1/3rd full.
    Jason, Any direct flights Kansas to Zurich?? No fuel gauge issue that i am aware of though.
    Paul and Shiv, I know the boot panel has been off so they have checked the pumps. Could still be an issue though.
    Perhaps circumstantial but I'm liking the vent pipe theory to fit the evidence so far. That could perhaps also match perishing due to low mileage of 8,000 since 2008?
    Thanks guys. Car needs to be fit for a road trip to Florence and back in 2 weeks. The love is building after the drive last night but full bonding still needs to happen as a result of this prolonged issue.
     
  7. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2002
    3,202
    South England
    Full Name:
    Mark Collins
    I had it on my 550 and a friend on his 612, for him it got much worse soon after he had filled the tank and we were driving over the Gt St Bernard pass, hope you get it sorted soon
     
  8. GianiCakes

    GianiCakes Karting

    Apr 5, 2014
    220
    Switzerland
    Dealer has not covered themselves in glory on this one. Was apparently fixed and at the start of the journey it was much better. Unfortunately over the course of 1,500 kms it got much worse again. It is now so strong that is should be easier to find the problem??
     
  9. Camp Freddie

    Camp Freddie Karting

    Oct 19, 2015
    156
    London, Doha, Beirut
    GC - It is probably the fuel pump covers leaking. Mine had exactly the same symptoms as yours and only resolved when they were replaced. Did they check the plastic covers?
     
  10. lamborarri

    lamborarri Formula Junior

    Nov 15, 2015
    452
    check the bottom of your gas tank. I had a car had gas smell problem, everything worked right. Later on we found out that the bottom of the tank got hit somehow and very small smell leak from there, not real leaking at all, just smell coming out.

    Maybe yours different problem, but worth a look at.
     
  11. GianiCakes

    GianiCakes Karting

    Apr 5, 2014
    220
    Switzerland
    Thanks for the ideas although both have been checked extensively already. One theory that may fit (perhaps just hope on my side) is that the filter may have been installed backwards which I think would explain why it got so much worse during 4 days and 1,500 kms?
    Seems to be a real systemic problem with the 612 albeit one caused by different issues.
     
  12. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 20, 2008
    740
    Kansas City
    Full Name:
    Jason Hagen
    Like I said earlier.

    This happened to me when I installed my own initially. Bad design that allows you to easily have the charcoal canister fitted 180 degrees upside down. I had terrible odors when I did that. Went back and flipped it back over (after carefully comparing mounting bracket witness marks on the filter I had removed) and the issue went away.
     
  13. GianiCakes

    GianiCakes Karting

    Apr 5, 2014
    220
    Switzerland
    You're the origin of the theory Jason although sadly Royal Autowerks is a bit far away for me. Will let you know what the outcome is.
     
  14. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    Aug 20, 2008
    740
    Kansas City
    Full Name:
    Jason Hagen
    Let me know if you need some orientation pics!
     
  15. GianiCakes

    GianiCakes Karting

    Apr 5, 2014
    220
    Switzerland
    Ok, spoke to the service manager today about the problem and it seems that the "glue" that was used to connect new lines to the existing pumps was not sufficiently resistant to petrol. I still have the original pumps (the pump part of which is fine) but new ones would have improved plastics and an integrated connection. The cost of the pumps at $500 each didn't sound too bad to me but as I'm suffering from expense exhaustion we're going to first try an improved petrol resistant glue for the connection which should work.
    In 2 years the belt change is due at which time I may consider a complete overhaul of pumps, hill ball joints and a bunch of other stuff such as uprated shocks; if such a thing exists.
    His view was that the Scaglietti is a good car in engine, transmission etc but the plastic fuel lines are all "scheisse" quality and always give problems.
    Jason, when you rebuilt your car did you use improved or 3rd party fuel lines?
     
  16. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2013
    1,259
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    Shiv
    Change the pumps. Seriously.
     
  17. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    Aug 20, 2008
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    Jason Hagen
    Big job! Pulling that tank out is a b!tch. But, they did change the pump material for a reason as they were having issues. I'd check you charcoal canister first.
     
  18. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2013
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    Jason,

    When my shop worked on it, they didn't pull the tank out, they moved it forward a little bit, enough to get access.

    Cheers,
    Shiv
     
  19. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    Aug 20, 2008
    740
    Kansas City
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    Shiv, you took me too literally!

    Yes, you don't actually remove the tank from the trunk (you could but that would require just a little more work getting it through the opening which is tight). But you definitely don't move it forward (that physically impossible). You move it rearward, into the main compartment of the trunk and extract the pumps from that position.

    Still a big job but everything is relative I guess. My tank needed quite a bit of careful prying on the welded on strap areas (along the rear, button of the tank) to get it to release finally from the tight squeeze and all of the foam, insulating tape. It then finally moved rearward, into position (of course after removing the appropriate plumbing and mounting straps.

    Anyway, good luck. And make sure you have the fuel pump retaining ring tool remover!
     
  20. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2013
    1,259
    SF Bay Area
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    Shiv
    Yes, Jason, thanks for the clarification, I meant pull it forward, which is towards the rear of the car.
     
  21. GianiCakes

    GianiCakes Karting

    Apr 5, 2014
    220
    Switzerland
    Update: New pumps have been ordered but due to the summer shut down will take another couple of weeks to arrive.
     
  22. xcvb1

    xcvb1 Karting

    May 19, 2016
    70
    #22 xcvb1, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
    With mine it seems that the seal of the fuel gauge sender was for what reason ever re-used when the fuel Pump on the right side was Changed and it lead to an ugly petrol smell and when the tank was full some gas came through as well. The Engine warning lamp went on regularily due to indicating a leak in the fuel system. It took the mechanic a while to realize what was going on since a normal person Would invest the few bucks on a new rubber seal instead of re-using an old one. The previous owner was an obviously stingy person.
     
  23. xcvb1

    xcvb1 Karting

    May 19, 2016
    70
    With mine it seems that the seal of the fuel gauge sender was for what reason ever re-used when the fuel Pump on the right Slide was Changed and it lead to an ugly petrol smell and when the tank was full some gas came through as well. The Engine warning lamp went on regularily due to indicating a leak in the fuel system. It took the mechanic a while to realize what was going on since a normal person Would investiert the few bucks on a new rubber seal instead of re-using an old one. The previous owner was an obviously stingy person.
     
  24. Makuono

    Makuono Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 15, 2014
    998
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    Hi GianiCakes,

    Did you sort the problem?

    How was it? New pumps?

    R
     
  25. GianiCakes

    GianiCakes Karting

    Apr 5, 2014
    220
    Switzerland
    The problem seems fixed, mostly. On occasion I will still get a whiff of petrol but it doesn't last long and the car is perfectly usable, excellent actually, for long distances. For some reason the garage only replaced the one pump although I would have preferred to do both while they were at it. They say there is nothing wrong with the other so we will see. There is a lingering odor in the trunk but I think that is reducing, again I'll monitor over time and the car is not being used at the moment so we'll see how it emerges from a few months of inactivity.
    There is some lasting psychological damage though as I constantly worry that the smell is back and ask the wife if she can smell anything. Drives her nuts!
     

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