not all 599 manuals factory now

A very keen response to the market. If they could get a 430 done for under $30k I'd bet we would see some more of those too.

 

There are a few RHD 599 after-market manual conversions here in the UK. From what I gather, they have some reliability issues, and are a pain to maintain depending on the parts used. Many are not internally similar to the factory manuals. Will be interesting to see what the market response is.

 

There was also a 575 "stick" conversion on eBay very recently. The seller was not disclosing that it was born an F1, but I can assure you that's the case.

 

Red- There are no internal mods required for the transmission, which is identical for F1 and 3 pedal F355s, 360s, F430s, 575s, 612s and 599s, so there is no way a conversion could be internally less reliable or harder to maintain. All the conversion pieces are related to the shifter and clutch actuation. Even the clutch and T/O bearing are identical, except for T/O bearing seals, which are easily swapped.

One of the 575M conversions has a 550 transaxle, which is less tough than the 575 transaxle, so I would want to check that for sure before buying a conversion. No way to screw that up on a 599.

Two reasons to do a conversion. First is you want one and they are too expensive OEM. Applies to the 599 and 575M. Second is to try and make money on the conversion, possibly by misleading the buyer, possibly not. Everybody buying a 3 pedal 575 or 599 now needs to check the build sheet, which any Ferrari dealer can provide.

 

Seems that there could be substantial legal liability for seller if such a car changes hands without full disclosure of non-OEM conversion. Enormous exposure for seller given the current price difference.

On the merits...Should be a nice car though. But F1 is OK too. Methinks F1 provides better aural stimulation based on gear changes. Personally that's what I like to hear.

 

$60K!!!

That's nuts, when you consider F1 was actually an additional option over manual.

Looks like price gauging to me.

 

You all know eventually some prospector will declare F1 as being worth more...

Here's why:
-F1 was derived from Ferrari racing and is Ferrari proprietary
-F1 is only found on Ferraris and some Maseratis.
-F1 is very closely related to MT
-Current DCT is by Getrag (not Ferrari)

 

I agree and I would also never convert one. I appreciate the desire for a manual but IMO, makes no sense in some model such as a 599 or 458.

 

No one has converted a 458 as far as I know, and the market disagrees with you regarding the 599.

 

I was giving my opinion of my tastes not the market

I'm just glad I love F1's so I won't have to pay stupid money to get one

 

and lots of Alfas

 

$60k is unreal. Mostly taking part off, aren't we? Yeah, adding a manual linkage for the shifter and clutch, and the interior mods. I know, I know...but $10,000 is a lot of money. As is $20,000. But...keep going...$60k? Wow.

 

After market. Not all OEM parts were not available at the time, and the conversions used different routing for linkages. As noted by Terry, the conversion is not brain surgery, but there were issues with linkages which failed. Mine did twice, and others had had similar issues.

In the UK, a non-factory conversion (OEM parts or otherwise) is easily traceable through the car registration doc (V5C) history.

 

LOL. I the old days when a car advertised A/C you had to ask if it was "factory air." Factory is always better and more reliable even back then.

 

If all the parts used in the conversion were OEM, no difference in the conversion. Trouble is there were very limited numbers of the manual parts stockpiled by Ferrari, so some have to be custom machined. Without an OEM manual 599 to copy, there will be some codging together of pieces that can lead to problems. Easier on a 575 since some of the 550 and 612 parts are common, more difficult on the 599 with its different gearbox case and twin disc clutch. The 612 OTO and Sessanta used those 599 parts, but Ferrari never bothered with a three pedal version of either of those versions of the 612.

 

Exactly. Looking back at my emails, there were no OEM front and rear control bars (unique to the manual 599) in the linkages to be found at the time.

 

Why are they doing these conversions? Is it because they have had a F1 car sitting on their yard for months and can't move them?

Or is it because something very expensive has broken/failed on the F1 system and this is the cheaper solution?

I can see this becoming a common conversion on all F1 Ferraris once they get old and trouble-some. I think I've said this before but if I ran an engineering company, I'd make a kit.

IMO as modern cars move more and more to autonomous, people will buy these sorts of cars wanting a very rich and involving driving experience. Yes the F1 might be great, etc. but it is not as involving as changing the gears yourself with a completely mechanical lever. Every successfully timed gear changing and/or throttle blip will reward the driver with a degree of satisfaction that he/she can do it right themselves.
Pete

 

Good point - I believe the total 599 MT cars was < 50. So, the parts are probably very scarce. I also heard the MT version of the 599 was not as well integrated as the 612 or F430.

 

The conversions are happening because Ferrari has indicated it would rather make DCT cars for rich clients who can't drive - READ: No more manuals and a dwindling supply of modern & classic MT cars. Hence, even historically "bad" Ferraris are going for crazy prices IF they have a gated MT.

F1 is definitely more drama than DCT and more closely related to a true MT. It is derived from Ferrari racing and does require you to learn about sequential shifting, where as MT allows you to change from one gear to any other under correct circumstances.

If you want a new V12 with MT, Aston Martin will sell you one and that is it.

My preference is definitely manual and I am considering such a conversion on my 07 612. However, I would not even consider doing it for anything near the price quoted above.

 

I have no dog in this fight but I always find these discussions entertaining. It's like arguing one color is better than another. My good friend has always said to me "baskin robins makes 31 favors of ice cream for a reason"

Ferrari has always taken F1 technology and applied it to road cars. How this is not understood blows my mind F1 gearboxes are exactly that. Modern Ferrari's are about modern technology. An F1 in a 275 GTB would be silly, just as a gated shifter would be in a 458.

I totally appreciate and enjoy a gated car but if you want one, buy one of the Gazzilion that exist without converting a beautiful F1

My 2 cents

 

Good points, but I don't think you quite understand.

The 599, 612, and F430 were the last generation of cars to actually have a MT. This discussion is about converting from F1 to MT in cars that were designed for either one. F1 was officially an option (albeit very popular) on these cars. Later versions of them were generally F1 only.

I think most agree that trying to convert a DCT car (such as 458) makes no sense.

 

Thank you and I do understand. I'm a bit of a purist with these cars and I just don't understand any sort of conversion. Especially at 60 large which IMHO is just ridiculous

 

Totally agree with you about the price.

For your interest, here is a recent discussion on the 612 F1 conversion:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/612-599/529665-612-f1-manual-conversion.html