430 Spider - 458 Coupe- or ZR1 | FerrariChat

430 Spider - 458 Coupe- or ZR1

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by DIGMAN52, Jan 21, 2014.

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  1. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    This may sound like a crazy comparison, but my car partner and I are ready to give up our 1995 355 Spider, and these three vehicles fit our needs. We are more buy and hold than flipping every couple of years. It appears our Ford GT purchase was as lucky as it is fun, and will be a long term keeper.

    We would like something faster , newer, and hopefully with reasonable maintenance costs.

    Our initial budget is something in the $150k range, but we might go to the low $200's
    if we need to.

    There seem to be a ton of 430's for sale, and there is a clean '05 Spider here local that
    a F/chat member would sell. After some quick searches, I see the 430's have the same cheap header issues my 355 had. Replacement with original headers from Ferrari sounds expensive, and they may fail again. Aftermarket headers appear the way to go. Any insight and cost guesses? Also it doesn't look like the F1 clutch has been replaced. What might this cost?

    From all accounts, the 458 is an amazing ride, and a big step up from the 430. Looks like first year coupes are getting down to the low 200's. I was on the Crescent Classic, and one of our Dallas crew had his 458 Spider up there. He commented that the 458 takes some of the fun out of the driver's hands, as the car does it all. Said his 430 Spider was more fun in the twisties, as he could kick out the back end when he wanted to. Not saying he doesn't like his 458.

    Lastly, we have the opportunity to buy an '09 ZR1 from another F/chatter here locally. It was a $118k list car, so loaded up. Got to drive it, and it was a blast ! Especially being able to open up the exhaust with a remote control when you want more sound.
    Can be bought in the high $60's.

    I know comparing the 3 is a little apples and oranges, but that is where we are at. Anything else we should be considering?

    I would think the 458 and ZR1 would be more trouble free than the 430. I know they will all depreciate, so where do you think they will be in 5 years? Here are my guesses.

    458 coupes at $150k ?
    430 Spiders at $90 - $100 ?
    ZR1 at $50k ?

    What direction would you head?
     
  2. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

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    I'd buy what I like, not ask others what they like. None are "investments" and the most expensive will lose the most on depreciation.
     
  3. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Keith. In the end we will. Just wanted some input from those that may have owned any of the 3.

    I agree on them not being an investment. After buying a 355 before I knew about F/chat and PPI's in 2003, I had to spend $32k over the next 3 years on issues common to most
    355's. Just want to get out ahead on issues on any of these 3 cars.
     
  4. TRScotty

    TRScotty F1 Rookie
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    ZR-1



    And I LOVED my 355, too!!
     
  5. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

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    I'd give the ZR1 a lot of consideration; it lacks curb appeal to the others, but it is really something and I would dare say will be a lot less to maintain. I hate the hood window and would have to see about an aftermarket hood, personally. My Z06 has been flawless.

    I am not a fan of non DCT automated manuals, so if I was looking 430, I'd only get a 6-speed. I think history will not be kind to clunky single-clutch auto-manuals and I also think they will be very expensive to maintain.

    I think the 458 is about to drop off the proverbial cliff on depreciation - the new model has got to be announced soon and I think the market is saturated. I also get the feeling the transmission is a bit fragile. A good friend blew his up in one track session at MSR.

    All of them are fun cars, but I'd put the 430 a distant third and mark down the ZR1 as least expensive. You did not mention it, but I'd throw the 12C into that eclectic bunch, but then again I am biased. And I'd also include the 2010 Viper ACR - better looking than the ZR1 IMO and an amazing performer, especially on track.

    Pity on the 355 - I've partnered on one for a few years now and we'd have to put a battery in it.
     
  6. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Keith, these are exactly the types of thoughts I am looking for ! Leaning ZR1 right now for a year or two, then 458 when they get below $200k, or something else.
     
  7. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I dont think the ZR1 will drop that low. Werent they limited in production?

    430s will be lower than $100k for sure in 5 years. You can already find clean spider for $120k. In 5 years you, the market will be flooded with 458 Spiders.

    I think $150k for a 458 in 5 years seems reasonable. If you want something that will keep its value and is huge fun, find a Challenge Stradale.
     
  8. Phil~

    Phil~ F1 Rookie
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    Where are all these cheap ZR1's?

    Most I have seen are $85+ for a no stories car with low miles.
     
  9. opencollector

    opencollector Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2005
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    The factory Z06 Carbon Edition hood looks like it would fit on a ZR1.
    GM built as many as people ordered, which worked out to 4,684 ZR1s from '09 through '13.
     
  10. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    I miss my F430 spider after having a 458 spider. The flavor is all gone. My favorite car is still that F430 with it's robotized gearbox slamming real metal in the back at lightning speeds.

    I'm buying a C7 Z51 but not to replace an F car. It replaces my Maserati Spider which unfortunately turned 12 years old. I haven't driven it yet but sat in one and rode in one.

    It's no Ferrari. That doesn't make it bad but -- it's no Ferrari. It's not even a Maserati on some levels but it's an excellent car for the money. My Maserati costed me $100K in 2002. The fully loaded C7 convertible is running about $72K in 2014. Hard to beat that.

    My suggestion is if you want a sports car that you can drive anywhere, anytime and beat the crap out of it all day long without worry, you want the Vette. If you want something special but more delicate, then the F430 or 458 are what you want.

    My personal choice of all three is the F430 spider F1. That car has personality, emotion, and is pretty simple to own and maintain.
     
  11. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

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    And there you have it. A big enough spectrum of opinions already than I revert to my first comment.
     
  12. Face76

    Face76 F1 World Champ
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    I think, in general, most people are going to consider the ZR1 an "yesterday' news" looking car once the C7 Z06s come out. This will help depreciate the car late this year and early next year to a point where a lightly used ZR1 will become a fantastic bargain. If the performance value is all that you are looking for then the ZR1 is a great choice.

    It will still be considered old looking though.
     
  13. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks for the responses! May have judged the 430 too quickly.

    Going to drive the ZR1 again Saturday.

    Have had a good source say he does not think the 458's will drop much under $200k for several years. Time will tell.

    I like the variety of opinions, and just consider all this a part of my due diligence.

    We are using our unrealized profits from the GT to convince our wives that this change in vehicles is not coming out of their Neiman's funds.
     
  14. TRScotty

    TRScotty F1 Rookie
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    LOL, sure hope they don't realize what the care and feeding of a 355 does to the Neiman's budget!!
     
  15. Nativetroy

    Nativetroy F1 Veteran
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    I would think the 430 would replace the 355 the best. The ZR1 is a beast. But it's not going to have the sound and feel of the 430. Plus you already have a supercharged V8 American car. One of the best ever built. If you want something different than the 355 driving experience, then a ZR1 or Viper would be it. But to match, I think the 430. Especially if you can find a stick. Or try F1. Later if you want, the 458 and ZR1 both may continue falling. So you could add one of those, or both.
    I'd have a hard time replacing a Ferrari with a 'Vette. Maybe Lee will chime in. He's owned a 430, ZR1, GT, and a 458.
     
  16. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Get a new C7 Z06 even though it will depreciate more than the C6 ZR1.
     
  17. leead1

    leead1 F1 Rookie

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    I would buy the ZR1. Mine was a 2010 and even today it is my favorite car of all time. The new ZR1 will be stunning at 700hp. I love my 2014 vette. it is beautiful and a great driving car.

    If you want european you must go to Lambo Aventador with 700+hp. I love mine and a great drivers car. It is expensive and the new Vette promises to be as good, although not as stunning to look at.

    The 430 and 360 Ferraris are better drivers cars then the 458 in my opinion. I have owned all three and not a fan of the 458 as a drivers car. They sure look good tho with a great sound. My 458 has been reliable and easy to live with and not a bad drivers car altohugh not as sport and taut feeling as the earlier cars

    Vette has caught and may be exceeded the Eouropean exotics. All are great cars. I love my 2014 vette. It gets good gas mileage if that is important to you.

    Good luck

    Lee
     
  18. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

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    I am going to go out on a limb and guess the OP wants a car within 12 months
     
  19. Phil~

    Phil~ F1 Rookie
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    Yep. According to most sources the Z06 will not reach customers hands until January of next year.
     
  20. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

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    I mean, at current prices you could get both a zr1 and a 430 spider and be under $200k...
     
  21. bretm

    bretm F1 Rookie

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    Ford GT prices are so high that personally I'd sell the GT and the 355. Replace them with a ZR1 and a 430 Scud or 16M. You'd be in the money buying the Scud and probably break even if you chose the 16M (depending on what condition and type your GT is).

    ZR1 and a 16M would be an unreal combination. Just my $.02.
     
  22. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    #22 DIGMAN52, Jan 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As my partner told me yesterday, the hook is set, and some kind of new vehicle is in our future. Waiting on the Z06 is not in the picture.

    Thanks Lee, I was hoping you would chime in ! Duly noted.

    The fun factor is big to us, and I think any of the 3 would provide that excitement.

    We are both ex-drag racer's from high school days, so raw acceleration draws our attention. He taught me to powershift his '67 390 Mustang GT back in 1969, and I still remember being worried about missing a shift and lunching the engine. Been awhile since I have attempted one of those, but he already mentioned the possibility if we go ZR1.

    Thanks again for the responses.
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  23. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    That kind of money puts you in the MP4-12C ballpark.

    McLaren Orange !

    There is (was?) a spyder at the dealer. I'll even lend a hand as a test driver.
    Thats what friends are for.
     
  24. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    Interesting thoughts there David ! Need to read up on those too I guess.
     
  25. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

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    If you like power trust me the 12C is epic and will outrun all of your other choices and I include the ZR1. The 7-speed DCT and launch mode put the power down brilliantly. But performance per dollar puts the ZR1 as the choice.
     

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