It was a good long run. RIP Viper.

Well this is what happens when a big foreign global conglomerate absorbs an American brand. As it exerts its own best practices which are naturally biased towards their pre existing inhouse strengths that which was Chrysler and American naturally fades ...

That's not what's important to them ...

This chairman has done the same with Maserati which is in the same country.

Audi has done it with Lamborghini.

It is ... the natural order of things.

If you really wanted Chrysler to remain American in nature then it should not have been sold off the way it was. I'm not even saying that was possible either.

It's been a long and astounding run based upon a single very similar platform.

 

This is what happens when you price a corvette into ferrari territory. They want to sell Vipers? Lower the base to 50K and you'll sell them by the truckload. 100K for a car that has the same performance of a car thats half the price is ludicrous.

 

Just curious, but have you DRIVEN a Viper? Much less the Gen V ACR package? It outperforms cars TWICE its cost.

 

I agree with you the last Vipers handle and perform as you say. I also owned a 2009 Viper. A very nice car but the last generation had it all, it is a true drivers car.

I will never sell mine. I must say as fast as the 640hp Viper is the Hell Cat at 707hp is much quicker. THe Hellcat has a long well base and carries a lot of weight so it is more of a muscle car than a sports car. But I love it.

Best

Lee

 

Did you think before you wrote that? On a Ferrari forum?

 

Hghly disagree with this.....Audi SAVED Lamborghini (even from a Diablo owner).

Yes, the first two products were bland (Gallardo& Mircielago) compared to the predecessors but the Aventadors and Huracans are knockouts and very competitive next to Ferrari.

 

Irrelevant in the final outcome though. Vipers were ALWAYS overpriced for what you got outside the engine bay.....and that isn't enough. The Corvette guys were always a step ahead knowing their market, making the improvements they needed to.

But they had a chance to re-boot in 2014.....and completely blew it....not sure they ever found all the parts that fell off during the media tests.

RIP....but very few will notice.

 

The pejorative remarks above are symptomatic of the Viper's demise. I can't put my finger on any one thing, but the Viper never got the upscale image it needed. The last ACR Exteme is getting some traction but too little too late.

Most buyers want bragging rights of big power numbers or some race car driver who did a hero lap. They won't personally track the car and of this only a tiny number have the skills to appreciate the full performance envelope. So all the intangibles are far more important than the objective numbers the car can lay down.

I don't care, I have an Extreme and can say from personal experience it will outrun GT3, Z06, 458 Speciale, pretty much any 6-figure car on track. Big compromise on street.

My viper most certainly won't RIP.

 

The Extreme Vipers represented incredible value to those that understood their purpose. Worth every damn penny. Sad that the laser focused performance mission of the Viper couldn't translate into a successful business model. The poseurs in wrapped L-cars would never understand-and will wander the Cars and Coffees, coastal drives and sticker laden special events secure in their ultra high dollar awesomeness-never to experience the thrashing a Viper would hand their car on track.

 

Anyone remember or hear the old stories about shelby cobras sitting unsold in dealerships in 60s? Some went for well under the $6k sticker and are now in the millions. Viper is set up to repeat story (at least acr extreme versions) imo

 

You may be correct, but most of us will be six feet under before it becomes a valuable collector car. The present is spectacular even if it's a antiquated platform

 

Not to sound snobby, but yes. You're getting ferrari prestige and the looks, not a dodge. The 1st gen Viper is one of my favorite cars ever and i plan on picking one up next year because they're so cheap. Even the Gen II GTS are dropping like rocks. Doesn't change the fact that they're overpriced and the market reflects that. I can tell you if i had a 120K to spend on a car, it wouldn't be a viper, it would be another F430.

A base viper should match a base corvette in price. An ACR should be priced with Z06/ZR1. Apples to apples.

I haven't driven the Gen V ACR, but i have driven the base and it was wonderful. Hard to get in and out and not very comfortable, but definitely wonderful. I absolutely agree with its performance, but you're talking the ACR, not the base.

 

I am sad the Viper is done. We can all pontificate about what Dodge/SRT/Dodge should have done, reality is that the car was never especially successful in the market, for whatever reason. Comparisons to Corvette are not correct as the Viper was never intended to compete with the Corvette.

Jimmy

PS. FWIW, I have driven 4 Vipers (not a GenV), each time I walked away mightily impressed with the power/handling/sheer craziness of the car. And each time, I knew I would NEVER own one because of all the compromises from an ergonomic standpoint. It's just not a car that I felt I could live with.

 

The 2 posts above validate why Vipers sell so poorly. One person I suspect has no interest in track use, and Viper is way too track centric. The other probably same and just wants more comfort and ergonomics.

You have to be a bit car crazy to have a Viper, and prize objective performance numbers above all else. If you lump Corvettes and Vipers you don't get it. The Viper was introduced in 1992 to be both a throwback and one up the then 375 hp ZR1. And go look at the show and Gen I cars, never has a production car been so like the show car.

A "base" Viper was always intended to be a ZR1 or other Vette special competitor, not a base Vette competitor. It's outrageous looking with a ridiculous displacement V-10 and NEVER had an auto trans. Rarely did production exceed 1000 units a year.

Gen II cars are decidedly NOT dropping like rocks in price, nor are Gen I. Gen II ended production 2002 and has been done depreciating for years (absent increasing mileage or other wear and tear from use). Gen I ended production 1995. They are crazy good bargains, with decent examples available from 30-50K, but that price has been pretty steady for some time. They are incredibly robust and simple mechanically and cost the price of an oil change per year to maintain with light usage. Don't crash one as hood and other body parts are pricey, but otherwise, they are as inexpensive as it gets to keep up. God forbid you have an LT5 engine problem in your ZR1 of the same era.

I don't know if they will catch on ever, but if they do, the prices will go crazy in a big hurry. Total Viper production is on the order of one model year Corvette production and annually way under any V-8 Ferrari or most of the Porsche GT cars. If that same demographic should "discover" the Viper, it will make it unattainable for the more grass roots enthusiast.

Frankly the low prices are OK to me, as the meteoric price rise of my F40 ruined the car for me.

 

Keith,
You are spot on in terms of my view of the Viper. I enjoyed the car but I was never going to track it and frankly, all the pain and suffering (you know what I mean) of driving a Viper on the street, from the crazy off set pedals to the boiling hot door sills, to the....you get the idea, made the car a no go for me. It's sheer craziness was both it's strongest asset (to folks like you, who were going to use it as intended) and it's greatest weakness to folks like me who wanted a fun mountain car but were unwilling to put up with it's numerous faults (as a day to day car).

Jimmy

PS. To state theobvious, Viper has it's very loyal fans (just like Corvette and Ferrari), it just never had ENOUGH of them.

 

Gen 1 cars are in the mid 20's where i'm at. I've seen a bunch for sale that have sold over the last few years for mid to high 20's. Base 92-93 RT/10's.

Gen II GTS's are in the low to mid 40's which is respectable, and you're right they've plateau'd.

Gen III....well nobody liked those along with IV. Those are dipping into the 30's now also for Gen III, but the coupes of later years are still holding ok. I've seen ACR's dip into the 60's.

If the viper wanted to SUCCEED, than it should've been a corvette competitor. The fact that it wasnt, no matter how many revision, is a reflection of actual market conditions and people's interest.

Is it cool? Hell yes. The Gen I RT/10 had one of the meanest car designs i've ever witnessed and i was really happy when it came out. I'd like to pick up 2 of them. One low mileage garage queen and 1 to drive. I have a feeling they will be going up in value as well.

 

I looked at a real cobra at the NY auto show they wanted $100k for the car. I wish I had bought it. Today a real cobra is in the millions. I think the engine was only a 289 CI

I hope the Viper goes that way in value. It is a great drivers car and a beast. I can understand why sime people would not like the car it is a harsh drivers car. I like that but some may not.

I also hope my Mosler goes up in value now that they are no longer in production. I bought mine new at the factory. Does not really matter I have no plans on selling that either.

Best

Lee

 

Looks like FCA is really milking the final year; not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, but FIVE (5) special editions!

 

I'd venture a guess the 20s cars have beat to hell flocked dashes (delicate and hard to restore) and side sills caved in over curbs and cracks in the big hood. And I'll almost guarantee they were not 92 models. There are only about 200 of those and good examples are definitely going up. I bought my 6000 mile 92 a few years ago for 35 and re-flocked the dash (some moron had used armor all an ruined it) and have not seen any good 92s cheaper. My 92 is 100% original down to cassette player and 3 spoke wheels. Close to perfect cosmetically other than inevitable fascia underside scratches.

I confess I have not looked for a nice 93-95 RT/10 lately but would be shocked a nice car is under 30K and the few I've seen advertised are closer to 35 ask for a good one. GenII GTS more like 40 for a really good one. No point buying junk. You won't be happy with it and it's harder to sell than a nice car.

PS there is no such thing as a "base" 92-93. Only option was A/C, and that was dealer installed for those years.

 

Agreed. If i can swing it next year i'll get one. Always loved them.

My posts weren't hateful, they were just my opinions on how the viper could've stayed successful. I think the quality vs price wasn't there. This new one is defintiely 100 times better and much less cheap and plasticky.

 

I think they get a bad rap as far as livability. I drove my 2001 5 out of 7 days per week for a couple years. No problems and even the A/C was fine.

I wish I never sold it. Planning on buying another Gen II later this year before prices start rising, which they will do.

I do agree the latest Gen was over priced (not over valued) based on where the car lived in the auto ecosystem. People saw it as a slightly more exotic vette so it needs to be priced as such to succeed (perceived value). They should have designed it to base price 10% higher than a base vette.

 

I tend to agree. They swung for the fence to try to compete with Porsche, etc. what is funny is there is large contingent that own Porsches who are NOW buying the ACR Extreme due to the wicked out GT3 RS pricing and the ACR intrinsic merits. Too little too late, but I bet the last ACR Extreme holds value just fine.

 

I've been thinking more about a "modern classic", and the Gen II Viper (coupe or roadster) keeps coming to the fore...I'm sure that I'll own one in the next few years.

 

As someone said, the Viper never got an upscale image. I'd almost say the image was pretty bad actually.

I always thought it was a bit too Dukes of Hazzard rather than cool American muscle.

It was a totally fine car I'm sure and very high performance in some respects, but they didn't market it right. It was too expensive for the brand.