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Mortgage Insurance

Discussion in 'Australia' started by carl888, Jan 12, 2015.

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  1. carl888

    carl888 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    Wondering if anyone can enlighten me as to a recent experience with the CBA re: a property mortgage and mortgage insurance. I'm either very dumb, or have uncovered a ripper banking fraud and would appreciate any comments.

    I was asked by a friend to come with her to help go through the fine print on a property mortgage. It's her first property, single mum, good job, responsible, no bad habits. Loan was to be 80% LVR.

    After carrying on about the rate and annoying the mortgage "Specialist" in the bank (She banked with CBA so assumed it would be a good place to start) I firstly asked for an amortisation schedule. Clearly annoyed, one was provided after a bit of a protest along with a schedule of any on going fees.

    Then we came to the mortgage insurance which the banker said with an 80% LVR was compulsory. I erroneously assumed such insurance was to indemnify the borrower under the terms of the loan should they be in the unenviable position in not being able to service the loan for a predetermined period of time. Sickness etc would fall under this, or so I thought.

    I firstly asked for the PDS, and the reply was "Since it's compulsory we don't have a PDS."

    I then asked for something, anything! What came next after 10 minutes of arguing was amazing, a single A4 piece of paper which I wasn't allowed to take. The summary was:

    1. The mortgage insurance did not indemnify the borrower at all. What it did was indemnify the BANK against any shortfall between the loan outstanding AND the sale of the property at Auction should the borrower default.

    2. Additionally, the insurance company that provided this service to the bank, would then chase the borrower (i.e. the one paying the premium!!) for any shortfall.

    So the bank were charging the borrower for an insurance premium which was of no value to them in any way.

    My friend wrote a nasty letter to the bank and they withdrew the mortgage insurance request. She also reported the findings to the Financial Ombudsman Service, be interesting to see the outcome.

    Any comments?
     
  2. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    Jun 15, 2006
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    I agree, you are very dumb. :D
     
  3. carl888

    carl888 F1 Veteran
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    Clearly!

    Whom is this?
     
  4. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 World Champ

    Jul 28, 2010
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    It's called LMI. Mortgage Lenders Insurance.

    Standard industry practice for our major banks, for loans for owner occupied security (residential homes) is that LMI is required for LVRs (Lending Valuation Ratios) in excess of 80% LVR. It is very expensive and not to be confused with borrowers person income protection. The definition you have provided is spot on. As you have pointed out, it is for the Lenders protection, paid for by the Borrower.

    It is not so much a lender requirement, more the requirement of APRA (Australian Prudential Regulatory Authority). It is APRA who stipulates to the banks what "Risk" their lending book is to be at.

    From APRA's website "The Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA) is the prudential regulator of the Australian financial services industry. It oversees banks, credit unions, building societies, general insurance and reinsurance companies, life insurance, friendly societies, and most of the superannuation industry. APRA is funded largely by the industries that it supervises. It was established on 1 July 1998. APRA currently supervises institutions holding $4.9 trillion in assets for Australian depositors, policyholders and superannuation fund members."
     
  5. carl888

    carl888 F1 Veteran
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    In other words, it's a con on behalf of the banks and wholly misrepresented by the CBA who eventually backed out of the demand?
     
  6. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 World Champ

    Jul 28, 2010
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    If we are talking about a first home buyer, it is to assist Borrowers to have a proper saved deposit and to stop people overcommitting.

    A Borrower can still borrow 100% of the purchase price using other Real Property security as collateral.

    Send them to Rob. He was a great Broker by all accounts. ;)
     
  7. greg246

    greg246 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Next time try the Bank of Roland!
     
  8. carl888

    carl888 F1 Veteran
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    But the problem is the borrower is in no way the beneficiary despite them paying the premium, they would be no better off by having it, only the bank would.

    But it was not sold that way to my friend, it was not explained and they refused to provide a PDS.
     
  9. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 World Champ

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    Reminds me of the CCR (Creedence Clearwater Revival) song. "Fortunate Son". ;)

    But,is he grateful? :)
     
  10. carl888

    carl888 F1 Veteran
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    Whom?
     
  11. greg246

    greg246 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    STFU and pay up you cheap **** :p
     
  12. greg246

    greg246 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    As grateful as a selfish **** can be :D
     
  13. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    Mar 20, 2004
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    Have you cleared your PM's yet ?

    M
     
  14. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 World Champ

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    The Borrower does benefit, in that they wouldn't get the loan without it. LMI is after all for residential purposes when the LVR is in excess of 80%.

    From a sales point of view, however, your friends experience is very ordinary, although, if LMI has been waived, they have had a "win."
     
  15. greg246

    greg246 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Reality is, single mum, first mortgage, LVR 80%, LMI is understandable
     
  16. carl888

    carl888 F1 Veteran
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    Nope, I've left it full. Sick of Krybabys contacting me and asking:

    1. Can you recommission my 308 GT/4 that's been idle for 25 years, I have a budget of $800.

    2. I hear you have Michelin XWXs for Boxers in stock, can you send them to Michigan freight free?

    3. I hear you have a good database, can you send me everything you have on xxxxx so I can put it on my for sale ad, and I need it by tonight so can you do it now?
     
  17. carl888

    carl888 F1 Veteran
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    There's no benefit at all to my friend in this case. With or without the exposure to a default her costs are less with the same liability without it.

    My beef with the bank is that they refused the PDS and only when I pushed them very hard did they agree with what I found.

    My personal opinion is that if you can't spot a 20% deposit you shouldn't even be thinking about a loan.
     
  18. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    FFS, if it's LMI wouldn't it be Lenders Mortgage Insurance?

    ;)
     
  19. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 World Champ

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    Yes of course it is.
     
  20. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Please ensure accuracy in your posts, that's the millionth time you've made a mistake.
    ;)
     
  21. j15

    j15 F1 Rookie

    Jan 5, 2005
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    I have a mate who had some dire financial troubles a few years ago and had to sell everything in order to pay the debts of his failed business.

    He's getting back on his feet now and had a deposit and budget sufficient for a $700k home. No idea who his lender was, but they required him to pay for LMI. The premium was $25k!
     
  22. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2005
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    I paid $25K cash for LMI on my $775K investment property through the CBA after they asked for a $60K cash deposit. I told them I would rather not pay LMI and can put down a $100K cash deposit, but it made no difference to them apparently.

    I still had to pay $25K LMI whether I gave them $60K or $200K deposit, it was unavoidable they said. So I just went with $60K deposit being an investment property and I paid LMI on top of that.

    Not sure that's how it works, but I bought my property so I was and still am very happy.
     
  23. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Doesn't sound so good to me.

    Wes?
     
  24. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 World Champ

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    #24 FazzerPorscheman, Jan 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
    Sounds very odd indeed.

    I would suggest you use a mortgage broker. It won't cost you anything as the lenders pay for their service.
     
  25. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2005
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    Hmmmmmm, well it's done now. Was 4 years ago this April and it was the first time I had to pay LMI to buy an investment property.

    I have been able to claim back the LMI and a few other borrowing costs each tax time. My accountant set it up to claim it all back over 5 years, a little each year.
     

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