'98 F355 Spider Left Turn Indicator Problem

G'day, folks, I'm not having much luck finding an answer to my problem on the F348/F355 forum, so I thought the Aussies might be a bit more knowlegeable

When turning left, the indicator flash rate intermittently increases. I've looked for high resistances, changed bulbs, changed a (short) front harness (which had damaged connector plugs) and am now looking at changing the turn relay, but I can't find it (P/N 171798 on my car)

1) Is it near the "Segnalatore Acustico" (turn indicator noisemaker) under the dash near the steering wheel? There is something which looks like a relay there, but it doesn't look easy to get to (and is wrapped in gooey, disintegrating black foam).

There is one bulb contact I haven't looked at. The small round side indicator.
2) Do you remove this by screwing it anti-clockwise (I don't want to push too hard on it)?

Putting the car in reverse and then putting on the left indicator generates some weird effects, including flashing reversing lights. I thought there might be an earthing problem, but I couldn't find any earth wires for the lights. Perhaps the earth is close to the relay... which leads back to question 1).

Initially, whenever the flash rate increased, the front indicator stopped working, so I assumed the problem was in that circuit. Again, it would help if I could find the relay to buzz out the wiring.

The relays are about UKP 117 and with the exchange rate the way it is, I'd like to do a bit more faultfinding before I order one.

Thanks.

Cheers
Ian.

 

Thanks, gents.
This gave me encouragement to continue. Unfortunately, I spent about 30 minutes looking in this area without success. I looked up above the accelerator pedal, following the kick plate on the wheel arch, and there was the emergency bonnet release, two disconnect plugs and a little higher than this was a large unsecured module (it's shape/size was nothing like any of the parts manual pictures). Perhaps related to the alarm system. I could only feel it. I couldn't actually see it.

I found two units marked "Segnalatore Acustico" (buzzer) on the car which I thought were related to the indicator, but neither seemed to generate sounds with either the hazard lights or the indicators working. One was under the dash near the steering column, the other was mounted on the fuse/relay panel in the passenger footwell. The indicator noise seemed to be coming from the right hand side of the dashboard (from what I thought was a speaker, but it's the Interior Temperature Sensor grille).

I'll keep looking...

Cheers
Ian.

 

Ahhh... found it. It was under the carpet, directly above the normal bonnet release (close to the door pillar). I had to take the kickplate off to help move the carpet out the way.

Now.. next problem:

According to the parts manual on Ricambi USA (for non-USA cars after a certain assembly number), the ''Direction-Emergency Lights Relay" should have part number 171798 (This is also the same as F360's and F456GT's). However, the part on my car seems to be an Alfa Romeo part (46466571), despite it looking like it is an original item (aged)

No doubt some Alfa Romeo parts are interchangeable with Ferrari parts, but I couldn't find any references linking Ferrari P/N 171798 with Alfa Romeo P/N 46466571.

According to the forums, other (non-F355) Ferrari cars with different part numbered relays do match up with that Alfa Romeo number.

I should probably play it safe and get an original Ferrari part.

I opened up the relay and there were no signs of water ingress and the components looked ok. It's quite a complex device with power transistors, an IC and lots of capacitors, diodes and resistors.

Thanks again!

Cheers
Ian.

 

I would probably have to use the official number to track down a alternate part. I'm not sure if I should assume the part I have is the right one to begin with.

I noticed that there are some pictures of the type of relay I have on this link, but this is on the 456/550/575 forum.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/141371999-post18.html

I didn't think of that... I'm sure a drop of amber fluid would have worked wonders

Cheers
Ian.

 

If it was a simple relay, I would probably try this, but there is a lot of micro-componentry in this unit with sub-millimeter circuit board tracks. I'd be worried that I'd incinerate the tracks even with a small iron. I tried to lever the case off the mini-relay, to clean the contacts, but I can't budge the thing. The unit is starting to lose it's pristine appearance The flasher unit looked remarkably heathy, to be honest. I do hope this is the cause of the problem.

Anyway, I did a bit more investigation on Ferrari sites (including a French one) and despite F355 (5.2) and post-F355 cars having different part numbers for their relays, they are equivalents (according to some "experts"). This opens up a lot more alternate (cheaper) sources for these Ferrari/Italian flasher units (Alfa, BMW, Saab). Hella (Germany) make a substitute for this unit, too. I've seen a Hella unit priced at 34 Euro plus postage (Hella P/N 4DB 006 716 041). The only difference would be the case (which can be swapped over).

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback

Cheers
Ian.

 

Well, after not much luck sourcing an alternative relay, I ordered an official Ferrari one (P/N 171798) at UKP107 plus P&H and installed it today. Ugh... instead of only the left side going fast, both sides went fast!

I refitted the old relay. Both side (left/right) indicators ran at the speed which I expected from a serviceable car (The left side did sometimes work ok before... It was intermittent). I swapped the old/new relays back and forth a few times, and always the same results (so it's not intermittent connections on the back of the relay).

I don't know if the part they sent me is faulty, or if the part number is wrong for my car. Does the average Ferrari indicator flash at twice the rate of a typical Ford/Mazda/Toyota?

In relation to ordering parts for F355's 5.2 on websites, are Australian cars closer to Euro cars or USA/Canada/Japan cars?

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=1540

Thanks
Cheers
Ian.

 

About 10 minutes south of the airport, Maurice. I'm not sure it would help, though. I just noticed that there was a manufacturer part number under the Ferrari sticker on the new relay. It's identical to the old P/N "SDC B883 46466571 81894". Having two identical relays producing different flash rates is baffling.

This really doesn't sound like a simple fix to me (based on my past life as an aircraft electrician). Intermittent problems are bad. Illogical ones are worse.

I think I'll go back to the basics. Check every lamp part number/wattage/etc to see if it matches the manual.

Thanks guys.

Cheers
Ian.

 

Gizzi... sorry.. just noticed your last post. I'll post a pic tomorrow.

Cheers
Ian.

 

Understood. Both relays (under the Ferrari stickers) are the same as the one on the right.

Why the new one consistently flashes (both sides) at double speed I don't know. The old one is currently fitted and runs at normal speed (at least in the garage). It usually fails during a run (only when turning left).

I wasn't sure how to remove the indicators on the side of the car, but I discovered today that they are just a push fit. I removed these and there was some corrosion on the holders. However, after cleaning, the new relay still ran at double speed and the old one at normal speed.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback

Cheers
Ian

 

Here's another view of the relay ....

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/141371999-post18.html

I might go to my local Alfa Romeo wrecker to see if they have something similar, just to prove that this new relay is faulty (ex-factory).

Here's a post on a French site claiming that Alfa part number 46466571* is the same

Google Translate (see post #28)

*(EDIT) After looking at Alfa websites, it's actually Alfa P/N 170762.

 

P.S. Most of the available (supposedly) substitute 7 pin relays seem to have the original Ferrari relay "12V/ 2(4) x 21W" requirements, but have an additional output "+0~5W"

e.g. Hella 4DB 006 716 041

I don't know if the extra output would cause problems.

I've read that the USA relays have "DOT SAE" on them, so that's one way to identify a non-Euro car.

 

Here's the pin numbering for the F355 5.2 Euro/Aussie turn relay:

http://www.iinet.net.au/[email protected]/FerrariF355Spider/FerrariTurnRelayPins.jpg

 

Update: I returned the faulty new flasher relay to Superformance today, in the UK (for a refund). Hopefully they can confirm that the relay is faulty. At the same time, I picked up (from the post office), a new pair of side repeater assemblies (ordered because of the corroded lampholders in the old ones). The corrosion might be contributing to the fast flash rate.

%$&#@.... The rubber surrounds on the new lampholders were too fat to go in the hole in the sheetmetal. They were only a mm larger in diameter, but they weren't going to go in. I was worried that the sheet metal would buckle if I pushed too hard or the lenses would break.The electrical plugs didn't match the car's plugs very well, either. I would have had to have wrapped up the wires with electrical tape to stop them shorting together.

Seriously, are poorly manufactured spare parts something I will have to get used to as a newbie Ferrari owner???

More time and money wasted. I'll just have to clean up the corroded lampholders as best as I can and carry out further tests...