Ok, lets nut it out once and for all... I say that we would ALL feel the benefit of using carbon ceramics, some for their longevity and low dust/dust free use, some for appearance, and some for performance... read this... it's bike related, but totally applicable to cars. http://www.starfiresystems.com/news/Sport_Rider_May_05.pdf and this...... http://www.engineeringtalk.com/news/sur/sur114.html
You learnt how to use google I found that same pdf the other day when I was going to argue my point then, I thought I wouldnt bother The fact they are 50% lighter would mean better performance since the car is lighter but anyway I got to pack for the big trip
I'd like to get to the bottom of whether carbon ceramic provide a shorter stopping distance "in normal use" or not. Not necessarily how or why (although, of course it's important), just IF........ I think they do, and there seems to be some evidence to back this up, but I'm open to persuasion on the matter.
well if we stick to braking distances for a moment, i don't see that mentioned anywhere in this article. the other advantages are, of course, well documented. i'll comment on the other URL in a minute
IF they do..and it's a big if..then i can't see why it would be anymore than the possible ease of stopping their lighter weight rotating. even then, i'm not sure if it would be measurable reliably in one stop, and i've never seem comparative figures from any manufacturer. Just the dust, weight and fade free advantages.
I'm not interested in just one stop... that test doesn't fully reflect how we drive. Around town, yes, one stop from low speed is all we do, but even normal people go to the NT for 330km/h runs, or spirited drives over Black Spur, or take their totally std car onto a club track day... that's what I'm interested in... shorter stopping in "normal use", not just "one stop". I KNOW that in spirited driving, we ALL get our steel brakes very hot, which makes their performance drop off. How about we run Mt Buller DOWNHILL.... which brakes would you rather have..... and we do go downhill a LOT....
Phil, i just finished reading the motorbike link on the CC brakes. They sound sensational....I'd LOVE to have some, and i can see people, in the future when prices are more realistic, maybe changing to them instead of the sort of thing on my car. However, once again, there is NO claim of shorter stopping distances. I'm fairly sure that, in your example, if you had steel brakes the size of the 430 ceramics (with cooling) you wouldn't get any brake fade in your "tests" which are, ridiculously, totally abnormal! One of the things being overlooked here is that even comparing CC on the 430 to non CC on the 430 is unfair as there is a MASSIVE difference in size. Anyway....they sound fantastic.
If you think my version of normal use is abnormal, I suggest you have bought the wrong car, you should consider a Hyundai or Ssang Yoong or something, and not a Ferrari. Braking is about heat... either the ability to dissipate it, or use it. Steel brakes the size of the 430 Ceramics would be really heavy. And, clearly, you have missed the scientific evidence. there is a graph showing coefficient of friction of the brakes. This is linked to brake fade. Brake fade can easily be felt in normal use. In ONE lap at Silverstone, I can get brake fade in my BB. So, I drive totally within the braking limit, and know I could stop MUCH later if I had better brakes. On the road, I can still easily get brake fade if I drive quickly, illegally? not always, but often, yes, ......but still "normally".
you must have cars with really crappy brakes. how about we compare CC brakes to GOOD steel brakes, hey? just for the sake of real comparison. i don't spose it's worth quoting AHG again when he says he had NO brake fade in his totally standard (as far as the brakes were concerned) 355...even at Calder because I'm sure you don't believe him....he was probably making it up....no ...wait...he was lying...cos anyone whose opinion isn't the same as yours is lying, right? NO BRAKE FADE.
We can all drive within brake fade quite easily, however, if we all braked as hard every stop as we could the first stop when the brakes were cool, we'd get brake fade in a normal Ferrari. You're making stuff up. Try to stick to real facts, if that's possible.
there's no point discussing anything when phil's involved, cos...well...cos! Ok...AHG lied, according to you. Smart move...we have no way of checking.
Hey scud, you've got 2 cars (360CS and 430) with ceramic brakes... tell us what you think of their performance, when compared to say your steel braked GT2.... in town, on track, on nice roads, at warp speed (NT)......
I once did 160kmh DOWN Mt Wellington in Hobart when I lived there a million years ago. Pretty dumb; but what was even dumber was that it was 1 am at the time....
4500 k's on the 430 and the pads feel like they are on the way out . i remember you guys saying that AHG's 430 had pads replaced early on. 10000 k's in the CS and they seem ok . well documented that the GT2 carbons were 5hit and i pulled them straight off and fitted big stock porsche steel rotors with yellow padig pads . they were great on the track , no fade at all . the GT3 steel rotors are slightly smaller but still great on the track , no fade . if steel rotors came in the same size as the carbons on the ferrari then i would go for steel and save the dollars . i could of and should of added after market steel rotors on the 430 and then placed the stock rotors back on the car at sale time . not that i am upset at buying the carbons , there great . lets hope i never get to the end of the rotor life ...it will hurt the pocket . give me 100 kilos less in a car rather than bigger brakes any day .i noticed the carbons on the zonda look identical to the 430 . the calliper has brembo on the side as well as pagani i think . i'd bet they are the same rotor and calliper size . i'll chase a pic and post
Yep, there's only one spot on Wellington you can do that and whilst it is downhill, its not super steep. Do you remember the Targa stage at Cethana where there is a fast downhill (around 180) with a tightish left at the bottom? That one makes the ring gear pucker up. Can't believe the loose use of the truth in post 13 above, talk about journalistic licence!!
what do you mean "the pads feel like they're on the way out"... long/spongy pedal, lost bite, lost modulation,.....?? what's the weight difference between CS and 430.. real world on the scales.... BIG BHP difference too.... would explain the wear rate for sure.
lost modulation i think , remember i'm a novice . weight diff not sure , say 80 to 100 kg . never really hit the brakes hard in alice , just off throttle and started to breath again
It's been eight years since my last Targa, so I can't say I remember the corner off the top of my head. If I saw it again perhaps I would, the memory isn't what it used to be. Doing 160kmh in a 1982 Toyota Celica at 1am is scary, even though it may be ok in today's performance cars. I really am surprised that I never killed myself in those days. Another time we had a race at 160kmh past the casino on Sandy Bay road- very stupid stuff.