OFFICIAL B-17 Thread

At just over 6' tall I was impressed at how little room there is in a B-17. The only place in the fuselage that I fit in was the cockpit. Everywhere else was was for guys 5'5".

 

And you guys thought Ferraris were addictive.
Welcome to the truly addictive world of warbirds.

 

One of my bunkmates at Langley Field in 1945 was Sgt. Joe Frank Jones who was a tail gunner in a B-17 that was cut in half by an airplane that slid out of formation. The aft fuselage was severed just forward of the tail wheel which was retracted. Joe tried to bail out but the rear door was jammed shut and he couldn't get around the jagged metal ahead of the tail whweel so he went back to his little seat and rode the tail down for 20,000 feet. It hit an oak tree in a farm field where some peasants were harvesting crops and they had to get the villiage blacksmith to cut him out of it. He survived the impact but with critical injuries and he woke up several days later in a British field hospital with an incision in his abdomen from his crotch to his breast bone where they had opened him up to repair the injuries to his innards. He was quite tall and getting into and out of the tail position wasn't easy to begin with.
Speaking of the 9 inch plank in the bomb bay, I got my chute harness hung up on the bomb racks there one day in a B-24 when I was going to the flite deck from the waist. Ol' stupid didn't bother to take a walk-around bottle and passed out at the same time I arrived at the flite deck. Lucky that the flight engineer happened to see me.
Those old bombers were cruel machines to spend a day in and there wasn't a shred of romance about it at the time but I still love the B-17.
Switches

 

I got my first taste back in the 60's while being hauled around in an L-3 and 7AC Champ.

I saw some really great planes doing some really crazy things that aren't allowed by the FAA anymore.

Needless to say I was ruined for life.

 

.or the bombardier position in the nose. I was quite happy to sit in the co-pilots seat and hang out the window.

It really made me wonder what it was like for an 18 year old kid to be pilot-in-command of one of these birds, especially while being attacked by Bf-109's.

I am told that those in their 20's were considered "old men" by the younger crew.

Simply astounding.

 

Ah, so true! I flew with an old man who had survived two tours in the E.T.O. flying B-24's. He threw up under the tail of the airplane before every flight and then proceded to perform his function as P.I.C. After take off and reaching assigned altitude, he turned the airplane over to the co-pilot and flight engineer and retreated to the aft flight deck to read comic books. He was a 24 year old captain at the time. I was 19.
Switches

 

To survive a high altitude flight in a WW2 bomber like a B-17 or a B-24, not even considering being shot at, it took the following.
1. Long Johns, wool, shirt and pants.
2. Wool socks.
3. Electrically heated suit.
4. Summer flight suit...by choice
5. Sometimes your winter O.D.'s
6. Fleece-lined leather pants.
7. Fleece-lined leather jacket.
8. Electrically heated gloves.
9. Electrically heated booties.
10. Fleece lined heavy boots.
11. Leather gloves.
12. Fleece lined helmet.
13. Oxygen mask.
14. Goggles
15. Mae West.
16. Chute Harness.
17. Chest pack parachute

Now try to move. And at 30,000 feet and -40 to -70 degrees, try to stay warm. Then you have to pee. Try to find it. The oxygen mask chaffes your face raw because it doesn't fit right and the condensation and snot drip out of the bottom forming an icecicle that melts all over you vest when you get to warmer altitude. Oh yes, you have to operate a cal. 50 machine gun while you're getting shot at by an FW190 that is equipped with a 30.mm cannon that far outranges your pop gun. This and flak can go on for 6 hours on a deep mission. Any food is frozen solid even if you could eat it.
Having fun?

 

While not a B-17, these stories remind me a lot of my dad's B-29 stories. After flying B-17s in gunnery school at Tyndall, he checked out on the new B-29 at Grand Isle, Nebraska before transferring to the 315th to fly B-29Bs from NW field, Guam.
He often remarked at the numbheadedness of some of the situations they were put in. The B-29Bs had no gun turrets save the lonely tail gunner way way back in the end. My dad said they were told that this would give their planes the speed to outrun any opposing fighter. On his first sortie Dad said they were cussing the engineers as the Japanese fighters were doing barrel rolls around them.
One story he often told revolved around the tail gunner, whom he said had his own little world back in the tail of the plane. Over Tokyo one night all he heard was the tg's voice yelling "turn!!" Dad replied "which way?" to which he was greeted by the young sergeant telling him "Any ****ing way dammit!". Dad hauled the huge bomber, named 'Noah 'Bortions', over and pulled like hell to see a streak of grey flash by the window as a Japanese airplane that had set up to ram them whisked by, missing by feet. The tg then came on the radio saying "**** - I saw his face dammit I saw his face- then crapped in my pants'.
It was a long uncomforable ride back to Guam for the TG,but one he was proud to make.

 

That's a great story! I can't say I would have reacted any differently...

Switches, your buddy is pretty darn lucky, that's all I can say! I've read a lot of accounts of people surviving "unsurvivable" falls lately. Interesting stuff.

 

On Oct-2-2007 i was given the opportunity to take a ride in the EAA's B-17 "Aluminum Overcast" Over the hills of Western NC. It was defiantly a flight that will be remembered for a life time. The sweet part of the trip was the fact that the emergency hatch over the Radio operators compartment was stowed allowing a clear view over the tail of the plane. The first shot is our initial climb out from KAVL from 16 the second one is of Downtown Asheville, NC from about 1000' AGL and 130 knots. In case you are wondering yes my head was sticking out of the fuselage when these were shot.
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Good stories from you guys. I never had the fortune to fly in the B-29 during the war but got the chance in 1992 at the 50th Anniversity Celebration at Boeing Field when I flew in FIFI in the bomb aimer's position for 1 1/2 hours. Tom Cloyd, the pilot, was killed a short time later in the CAF B-26 crash and that was a sad thing for me.he was a great guy.
The B-17 is an airplane that was designed in a transition period, one breaking out of the infancy of all metal design and not quite reaching the optimal point. It was over- designed and therefore very strong and durable. A fact that was verified during WW2. The max gross weight was almost doubled without any structural modification to the wing.
Switches

 

That sounds more like torture mate, great photos Rob.

 

I'm watching "Memphis Belle" this evening.

Makes you wonder. . .

where have we come to?

 

Sounds like what I wore in the summertime for flight trainin....
I usually passed out, from the heat exhaustion, just before takeoff......

Instructor wouldn't let me solo... I wonder why???


NAH!! Jus kiddin!

 

Neat idea.

Liberty Belle over Fort Worth
Chuckie at the Lancaster CAF fly-in. Saw it land and toured it
Nine-O-Nine at Denton. Toured it and watched it take off.

 

Sentimental Journey seen several times a AZ CAF and Nellis AFB
Nine o Nine at Livermore CA
Liberty Belle At DeerValley Airport Phx AZ and Luke AFB
Alum. Overcast Flew in at Asheville, NC and visited at Greenville, SC and Lawrenceville, GA
Yankee Lady flew in at Thunder over Michigan 06 Willow Run Arpt., MI
I cannot remember the name but the B-17 at the Palm Springs Air Museum

 

The B-17 at the Palm Springs Air Museum is "Miss Angela"..



and here is "909"...and crew

 

This one stopped by my hometown airport a few years ago. Unfortunately I didn't see it myself. I pulled these shots from some video that our photographer sent back on the microwave link. And unfortunately again, I found out LAST NIGHT that one of the B-17s was back at the same airport THIS WEEKEND and I never knew about it. Tough luck. Missed it again. I did see the CONFEDERATE Air Force B-17 flying over Little Rock a few years ago as I was driving to work. It was flying over a steam locomotive that just happened to be passing through town on the same day. How weird to see a B-17 in flight over a steam locomotive in motion. That hasn't happened to me before or since and probably never will.
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Great photos.

In my few years going to airshows, there are only two airplanes that still bring a tear to the eye in awe as they fly over, the B-17 and the F-4.

 

+ On the F-4, it saved many lives in Nam.