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  #1  
Old 12-25-2009, 04:57 PM
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Mini-Merlin

While getting the TR dynoed yesterday I spotted this V-6 in the shop, destined for what they said was a 3/4 scale P-51.
I would say more likely better in a 1/2 scale P-51.

The engine is a Suzuki 2.7 liter V-6 that will use a belt drive reduction off the flywheel.
It's at the shop for engine dyno set-up. They should really convert it to dry sump while they are at it...........................might as well add a supercharger too
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SPASSO...... "Oh yes, that is one of the very best ways to break these and it is also pretty dangerous. You really shouldn't do that". - mk e.

Last edited by Spasso; 12-25-2009 at 05:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2009, 04:51 PM
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That engine is built for a 3/4 scale Titan T51 all metal homebuilt mustang. Very cool airplane.
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2009, 06:04 PM
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Should be a 1/10 Mustang!

"Mini" is right since the original was 27 liters, not 2.7! Pretty neat the way the exhausts are doubled up at the manifold.

My dad worked for Alcoa, and he remembered how in the late 40s, brand new Packard-built Merlins being sold for pennies on the dollar as scrap. They were melted down by the ton.

Last edited by dinodan; 12-28-2009 at 06:06 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-30-2009, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBum View Post
That engine is built for a 3/4 scale Titan T51 all metal homebuilt mustang. Very cool airplane.
I dunno, looks pretty small for a 3/4 scale P-51. Not much HP there either.
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  #5  
Old 12-30-2009, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Spasso View Post
I dunno, looks pretty small for a 3/4 scale P-51. Not much HP there either.
Just what I want in an airplane. Over stressed, over revved, undersized experimental motor with a lousy torque to weight ratio.

Sign me up.

What are some people thinking?


Mini Merlin my butt. More like the deepest part in a smoking hole in the ground.

Last edited by Rifledriver; 12-30-2009 at 11:56 AM.
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  #6  
Old 12-30-2009, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Rifledriver View Post
Just what I want in an airplane. Over stressed, over revved, undersized experimental motor with a lousy torque to weight ratio.

Sign me up.

What are some people thinking?


Mini Merlin my butt. More like the deepest part in a smoking hole in the ground.
That's why I was saying , maybe a 1/2 scale, with supercharger.
The P-51 design is not a big-winged "floaty" flying leafblower. (ultralight) , unless that is what this particular design is, a flying leaf blower that "looks" like a P-51.
It needs speed and power to make the laminar flow wings work. Throw in a high stall speed and this engine in stock form isn't going to do it.. The power per cubic centimeter isn't close to being high enough for the weight of the engine itself..............and it needs to go to dry sump!
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SPASSO...... "Oh yes, that is one of the very best ways to break these and it is also pretty dangerous. You really shouldn't do that". - mk e.

Last edited by Spasso; 12-30-2009 at 02:49 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-30-2009, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Spasso View Post
That's why I was saying , maybe a 1/2 scale, with supercharger.
The P-51 design is not a big-winged "floaty" flying leafblower. (ultralight) , unless that is what this particular design is, a flying leaf blower that "looks" like a P-51.
It needs speed and power to make the laminar flow wings work. Throw in a high stall speed and this engine in stock form isn't going to do it.. The power per cubic centimeter isn't close to being high enough for the weight of the engine itself..............and it needs to go to dry sump!
And it really needs to be an engine designed for a constant output of 70 or more percent. No car engine has ever been rated for that. They are more like 25%. Lots of great car engines and airplane engines out there but the design function is far too different to just switch them back and forth. The aviation version of the Porsche flat six was the closest but it was not exactly a smashing success.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Rifledriver View Post
And it really needs to be an engine designed for a constant output of 70 or more percent. No car engine has ever been rated for that. They are more like 25%. Lots of great car engines and airplane engines out there but the design function is far too different to just switch them back and forth. The aviation version of the Porsche flat six was the closest but it was not exactly a smashing success.
I remember a number of homebuilts in the 60's and 70's that successfully used Volkswagen engines. Very small planes but they performed pretty good. This was before ultralights.
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifledriver View Post
The aviation version of the Porsche flat six was the closest but it was not exactly a smashing success.
Master of the understatement.....

The PFM was an unmitigated disaster, and that was with all of Porsches' experience with racing air cooled motors for a half a century, and they supposedly knew all there was to know about high performance air cooled engines. Lots of folks thought the PFM stood for Porsches F'd up Motor. Running an engine at 75% power or greater is a whole nother thing compared to even running at LeMans. In a 24 hr race you probably see a grand total of 18 hrs above 90% power, never for more than a minute at a time, and then the engine gets a shot of cold air thru it as you slow down for a corner to cool of the hot parts. After that one race you throw it away. Running 2,000 hrs with 5% at 100% power and the rest at 75% is a lot tougher to do.

Face it aircraft and boat motors live a tough life. When you look inside essentially any geared recip you will find a relatively short life motor. Yes I know the big Merlins and Allisons were great engines, but ask Sparky how long they live if you use them very hard. Marine engines are the closest to an aviation application in duty cycle and if you want them to live very long you can't run them very hard. One of the keys is how much heat you can remove over time thru the water jackets, pistion tops and valve seats. In order to get life, you have to slow them down and get less heat release over time.

Ktec (builder of the Corvette factory endurance engines) has a contract with the Navy to demonstrate a 500 hp boat engine that weighs 1 lb/hp. Wanna take any bets on how long a 500 cubic inch small block will live at WOT and 4500 rpm..... My bet is not long.

Everybody moans about the Lycosarus, but when they routinely go 2,000 hrs between overhauls, it makes you realize how tough they are.
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  #10  
Old 12-30-2009, 08:18 PM
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Wanna take any bets on how long a 500 cubic inch small block will live at WOT and 4500 rpm..... My bet is not long.

Especially with a SEAL driving it.
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  #11  
Old 12-31-2009, 11:45 AM
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The Falconer V-12 is the real deal machine that tops 800hp using only 600 cubes and weighing in at just over 700 lbs. A quality engine with 65k starting price. Mostly used in 1/2 or 2/3 Mustangs. Speeds of over 350 have been seen with these little screamers. The aircraft type uses electronic fuel injection and a very big gear reduction box up front.
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2010, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky p-51 View Post
The Falconer V-12 is the real deal machine that tops 800hp using only 600 cubes and weighing in at just over 700 lbs. A quality engine with 65k starting price. Mostly used in 1/2 or 2/3 Mustangs. Speeds of over 350 have been seen with these little screamers. The aircraft type uses electronic fuel injection and a very big gear reduction box up front.
YES! The Falconers are magnificent motors. Not many get into offshore boats tho as the starting price is too high, vs modified BBC's & BBF's. Lifespan is certainly a plus with the Falconer.

Interesting legend about the early development of the Falconer: given his extensive background building CanAm and F5000 motors, he cut and fabbed 2 SBC's into a prototype V12. It worked pretty well, so he made some 'adjustments' and built the first run of 20 motors.

Which story reminds me of two SBC's cut and fabbed into a V-16, which went into a replica 'Baby Gar'. Very fast boat, on a nearly frozen Hudson river in January......wonder if that one is still running.......?
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