F-117 flying again? | FerrariChat

F-117 flying again?

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by alexD, Nov 16, 2010.

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  1. alexD

    alexD F1 Rookie

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvyaG7EIC18

    No proof that this video is recent other than what the guy shooting it says towards the end. Interesting though...if it is in fact recent, maybe they brought a few back and are using them as test beds?
     
  2. kevin956

    kevin956 Formula Junior

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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I thought we had stomped all those cockroaches, but looks like we missed a few. They would be pretty handy for testing low observable materials because the planar shapes, developed before we had a 3D code, would make it easy to change materials.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  4. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I never understood the whole "It has the radar cross-section of a goose" bit. I mean, if you see a goose flying at 40,000 feet at Mach 2, chances are, it isn't a goose.
     
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  5. RacerX_GTO

    RacerX_GTO F1 World Champ
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    The smaller the radar "cross section" signature, the more undetectable it is to radar at distances. The radar energy sent out from the antenna and bounced back to the antenna by a stealth fighter would not be anything readable. It would have to do a Maverick & Goose tower fly-by in front of the radar antenna to get a good radar signature bite and even then, it would have the signature of a "Goose".


    __
    (During a combat test with the F-22 Raptor, four of the USAF's top fighter pilots in F-15's went up against one Raptor. All they ever heard was the Raptor pilot calling Fox missile shots indicating an Eagle kill. They never saw the Raptor, not on radar and not with eyesight.)
     
  6. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    -.-
     
  7. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    I thought this was still in service :eek:

    When was it retired?
     
  8. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Yea me too???? It was out of service???
     
  9. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #9 Chupacabra, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
    2008, IIRC. I'd like to see one or two still up and running. I hate it when planes are sent to the scrapyard!

    I remember as a little kid, my friends and I would sneak out and walk around late at night. Once, veeeery late and under a full moon, we heard engines but saw nothing. Then, we could just make out a silhouette of this triangle-shaped thing heading Northeast toward Langley. Of course, we thought it was some UFO or something and no one believed us. It was still pretty hard to see and it looked nothing like the Testor's models we had built :), so we didn't make the association. I don't know what they were doing with it 'round here -- I know they didn't use Langley as a base of operations. Heading overseas, perhaps?

    Along those lines -- anyone know how they managed to fly around without being visible on ATC radar and without lights? I know they didn't carry any radar on the 117, so just see and avoid on the part of the stealth pilot, I presume?
     
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  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 tazandjan, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
    F-117A was subsonic, for those of you who did not know. The F-117A was retired because it was too expensive to maintain. The 1st generation low observables coatings were eating our lunch. Maintenance costs killed a long line of aircraft, including the B-58, F-4, F-111, and others which still had service life, but cost too much to fly compared to later generation aircraft.

    Geese actually show up pretty well on radar, as do Sandhill Cranes. Usually because they fly in large formations.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  11. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    We spent all that money on those things and they're not even using them any more? What's up with that?
     
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  12. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

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    In case of a pending use, I wonder how long it takes to re-commission the aircraft? Would it even be a thought with our 5th generation fighters, and further development of drones as a delivery agent?
     
  13. alexD

    alexD F1 Rookie

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    #13 alexD, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
    In Ben Rich's book "Skunkworks" there are some pretty cool stories about development of the F-117.

    The first RCS test to validate that their models were legit:

    "From the computer program, the Skunk Works engineers created a ten-foot wooden model dubbed the "Hopeless Diamond". The model was taken to an outdoor radar test range on the Mojave Desert near Palmdale. The model was mounted on a 12-foot high pole, and the radar dish zeroed in from about 1,500 feet away. The site radar operator could not see the model on the radar, until a black bird landed right on top of the Hopeless Diamond. The radar was only picking up the bird...."

    Then stories from the engineers who said when they saw explosions in downtown Baghdad at the beginning of the first Gulf war on the news but no AAA or SAM fire, they then knew for sure that the jets worked as advertised ;)
     
  14. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Thanks for the info! Always nice to hear from someone that worked around these birds. :) I never realized they were subsonic. The shape has always intrigued me as well as flight characteristics...thankfully they still have a few up and flying.

    Speaking of sandhill cranes, we get a lot of those in FL. Man those things are loud in the morning...:( They walk all up and down the streets not afraid of cars. A couple of them walked right next to me as I was checking the mail. They're like 4+ feet tall.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Don- The last F-117 built in July 1990 is over 20 years old now, the oldest 28 years old and, like I said, the first generation low observables coatings were becoming prohibitively expensive to maintain and less effective.

    The cost on the aircraft was not that bad because they had few people screwing with the requirements and gold plating the aircraft. So they were a relative bargain and used a lot of off the shelf gear. Theory was they would be replaced by F-22s and F-35s. F-22 production has been curtailed, so it will be the F-35, with 5th generation capabilities and much easier to maintain LO technologies.

    The Sandhills are huge and not too bright. The Whoopers are at least a foot taller, if you ever get to see one. Only photos for me.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  16. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #16 Spasso, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
    Once known as "Wobbly Goblins" until they got the flight software straightened out.

    There are a few aircraft that have been built that are virtually impossible for a human to fly without the aid of a computer.
     
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  17. kevin956

    kevin956 Formula Junior

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    #17 kevin956, Nov 19, 2010
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  18. RacerX_GTO

    RacerX_GTO F1 World Champ
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    #18 RacerX_GTO, Nov 20, 2010
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    Which means, Hopeless Diamond's facets reflected all radar waves away, as to keep the radar signal from returning. No signal returned, no read. And that was only a wood model!
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  19. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    It's really interesting how huge the F-117 looks next to the SR-71 there at the Blackbird Air Park. The F-117 looks like a hulking hunch back and the SR just looks long and skinny.
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 tazandjan, Nov 20, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
    The term "wobbly goblin" came from a Tom Clancy novel.The actual F-117A flew beautifully according to several of my friends who flew them.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
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  21. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    I had several friends convert from the mighty F-4 to the F-117. They also said it flew well, but one thing that was interesting to me as a flight surgeon was that, at least after the F-4, they talked about how missions were quite lonely. Because of the stealth mission requirements, they would launch and fly for hours by themselves at night and never say a word on the radio. The mission was determined by things that the instruments told you about where you were, weapons release points, etc. All in total silence, alone, in total darkness takeoff to landing.

    Maybe that gib wasn't so bad after all.
     
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  22. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    I heard the same.
    Early on I read they had some issues with overly sensitive control software that allowed Pilot induced oscillations.
    Once rectified it flew like any other.
     
  23. kevin956

    kevin956 Formula Junior

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    #23 kevin956, Nov 20, 2010
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    Pushing slightly off-topic, but I figure that Have Blue is OK to include here as a F-117 predecessor of sorts. I stumbled onto the photo below while poking around this evening:

    From paperback page 44 in Ben Rich's "Skunk Works" book:

    "Keith Beswick, head of the flight test operations, designed a coffee mug for his crew with a clever logo showing the nose of Have Blue peeking from one end of a big cloud with a skunk's tail sticking out the back end. Because of the picture of the airplane's nose, security classified the mugs themselves as top secret. Beswick and his people had to lock them away in a safe between coffee breaks."
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  24. alexD

    alexD F1 Rookie

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    love that logo..would kill to get my hands on one of those (original) coffee mugs.
     
  25. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    Those sort of mugs are very hard to come by outside of the appropriate programs. I have only run across one in the last ten years and the guy was a little embarrassed to get caught in the open with it.

    If you want more generic stuff there is a gift shop at a building outside Plant 42 in Palmdale with random type Lockheed/Skunkworks junk.
     

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