HondaJet begins FAA certification process

Finally! I thought they were supposed to be delivering airplanes by now...

 

When was the last time a startup aircraft company delivered a certified plane on time?

 

When originally announced wasn't the cost significantly less? Compared to the Cirrus Jet...???
http://cirrusaircraft.com/vision/

 

HondaJet is a turd and total waste of time. Can't believe they're attempting to move forward with it.

 

I wonder when Honda started making cars if people had the same opinion? I remember reading about the specs of this aircraft years ago and was impressed by the design and efficiency. I haven't followed through to see if those stats still hold up in the production model but I wouldn't discount the potential.

 

Yes, they did. I remember when my Father bought his first Toyota (which had the same reputation then as did Honda, if not better) and people laughed at him.

That was 1979 - not terribly long ago.

Jason - I am not a pilot, but I am curious why you think it's a turd?

 

Max Cruise: 420 KTS
Max Ceiling: FL430
Rate of Climb: 3990 Ft/Min
VFR Range: 1400
IFR Range: 1180 (not sure what these ranges convert to in normal Biz jet standards with the 45 minute reserve and additional requirements)

Is that bad? Compared to what? It is a bit bigger than the Mustang and Embraer 100 isn't it?

 

It's going to be loud for the passengers with those nacelles mounted on the top of the wing like that. Going to obstruct the passengers view as well. I'm not sure they thought that one out.

 

Everyone I've talked to think the wing-engines are just 'hey-look-at-me' design posturing.

Will be loud, and is ugly and ungainly.

Think the Honda name will cover any sins?

Thought I heard somewhere that Piper was actually building it for Honda.

 

That engine in the vertical stab on the Piper Jet is another issue. Lots of airfow and thrust vectors on that rudder area. Piper never built a jet before. the most recent design is they made is the Meridian and it's pretty underbuilt for what it is.
In that 4.5 mil range, I'd stick to a Citation Mustang or a Premier. Let someone else throw their money into playing test pilot. Even when that new Ferrari 458 catches on fire, you can pull it off the road and call 911.

 

I think it will be quieter because you don't have them bolted directly to the fuselage. They have the mounting structure as well as the wings that the vibration has to travel through. I would imagine that they could 'tune' a lot of the vibration and noise out by the time it gets to the cabin...???

The lack of visibility does suck. I am a window seat kind of guy and like to watch what is going on outside the plane.

 

wow, lots of negative opinions and bashing on this thing....why? I'd be curious to find out what the basis of your dislike is, other than the supposed noise for the passengers.

 

OK,

When shopping for a new airplane, you need to know how to read between the lines.

Range- Range is based on how much fuel you are carrying. The HondaJet has very poor "useful load". Airplanes can either carry fuel or people. Not both. Full fuel on the HondaJet allows you to a take a pilot and a small bag. The quoted range for the Hondajet is only accomplished with full fuel. The range also assumes cruising at 45,000 feet which is never ever going to happen.

Speed- The speed quoted for the HondaJet is only accomplished at 45,000 feet. I takes the HondaJet about 45 minutes to climb to 45,000 feet. That's IF you get clearance direct to 45,000 feet which you never, ever, ever will.

Airplane manufacturers cook the numbers in the sale literature. They quote full fuel range, but they also quote how much you can carry. The catch is that you can't do both.

Small and Jet do not belong together. Especially if it's a twin. Jet engines require too much gas. Small jets just don;t have the payload.

Trust me, if you have $4.5 million to spend on a jet, the HondaJet will be last on your list if you know watt you're tailing about. Get a Citation Excel or a Beech Premier. Buy something made of metal, not fiberglass. HondaJet is a turd.

Buying airplanes is not like buying cars. It's like buying a car plus 1000 more details you need to understand. You need to fly a lot to know all the intricacies.

 

Actually, the IFR range on the Hondajet is advertised at 1180nm. That's cruising at FL410, with 100nm alternate, 45 min reserves, and 1 pilot +3 passengers. I think that's pretty good for an airplane of that size.

Also, that thing will do 420kts at FL300, and it's single pilot to boot. I think the Premier 1A is probably it's strongest single pilot competitor, but man that thing is ugly. The Excel is a great airplane, but you can't fly it single pilot, and the operating costs are a good bit more.

I think the mix of Carbon Fiber fuselage and metal wing on the Hondajet is pretty intriguing as well. It will be interesting to see how it's received in the marketplace.

 

That's assuming you can get an unrestricted climb to 41,000'. I fly out of Atlanta. It never happens. You'll be stuck down low forever burning gas like crazy. You'll never get to 41000'. Then, lets talk about getting stepped down..... Coming into PDK for me, I'll get dropped down to 6000' to 12000' 100 nm out. That's going to murder your fuel burn. Flying your own airplane that requires you to be at 41000' to get the quoted numbers is a totally unrealistic way to manage your travel. You'll never, ever get there.

1180NM is a joke. There's practically no airplane that can't do that. You won't be taking the Hondajet more than halfway across the country without having to land for fuel. You'll get there faster in a Cirrus at that rate as you won't have to stop for fuel.

At 30,000', you won't get the quoted range as your fuel burn will be through the roof.

You can fly an Citation Excel as single pilot with an exemption. However, comparing a Beech Premier to this HondaJet is crazy. Have you been inside the HondaJet mockup? Have you been inside the Premier? The Premiere is a much larger aircraft and in a totally different league than the HondaJet for the same price or less. Same with most every single pilot Citation. There are many single pilot jets that are much larger and more capable than the HondaJet. Better yet, these larger, more capable jets with decades of history are available practically brand new on the used market for much less than $4.5 million. You spend $4.5 million on HondaJet and it'll be worth exactly half the day you fly it off the showroom floor.

Honda has no aviation history. Honda has no other airplanes to sell. Selling airplanes isn't like selling cars. You're taking a huge risk buying the first plane right out of the box over buying a Citation or a Premier.

The HondaJet is all about marketing. These big companies come up with ideas like this because it creates buzz. People talk about the design and engines etc.

I visit the HondaJet booth every year at the NBAA. This past year it was hardly there. The process and the economy are taking it's toll on the program. If you signed up to buy one in the last few years, the contract offered you a money back guarantee if you backed out. I think many have. I don't know how you can look at the numbers and the price and not.

I'm all for new competitors entering the marketplace. But VLJ's were a fantasy. They're too inefficient and don't make a whole lot of sense. The HondaJet design LOOKS really cool. But that's where it ends unfortunately. Any moron with a calculator can put the rest together and it won't fare well.

 

I think you are confusing the Excel with the CitationJet or even the older 550/560 models (V, Ultra, Bravo, Encore, etc.).

The Excel is much larger and can NOT be legally flown single pilot under any circumstances.

The waiver program applies to other Citations, not the Excel.

That said, the Excel is in a completely different class from the HondaJet. A more apt comparison would be a CJ2 or CJ3, which you can fly single pilot.

Personally, I'm agnostic on the HondaJet. I'll wait to see what they actually certify before I start making any judgements.

 

Point being, there are much better jets for a lot less money.

I'm not going to split hairs over what can and cannot be certified single pilot as there are a lot of details and it's not worth discussing.

"Comparison" is being made based on $4.5 million. Not "number of seats".

 

Jason,

I am still not sure I understand how you really feel about the HondaJet.



Thanks for the info. I am not a pilot so it is good to hear an opinion from someone who flies.

 

A new Excel (actually an XLS+) is not anywhere close to $4.5 million. If you are comparing used to new, that's not a fair comparison.

For $4.5 million NEW you are looking at a CJ1+ or maybe a CJ2+.

You can always get more airplane for your dollar if you are willing to buy used.

 

Don what you write sounds reasonable. Like you, I'm reserving judgment.

 

That's exactly my point.

How is Honda going to sell a new jet for $4.5 million that has lousy numbers when the economy is in the toilet and you can pick up much nicer jets for a lot less money.

Even if we are comparing new to new, a Premier (the new Hawker 200) can be had for less than $4.5 and offers a lot more.

Point being, I don't think Honda built this jet for any more reason than to have something to talk about. I'll put $100 on it never making it to market. EVER!

 

I'll be happy to take that bet.

 

Done!

 

Ouch on that bet... all I can say is: Eclipse, Adam, Sino Sweringen, Aerostar Jet, SSBJ. Mitsubishi made a jet once, and it got crushed by regulation to become the Beechjet 400. Maybe the Honda Jet could become the Beechjet 200. I'm guessing it's half a Beechjet 400