Eclipse 550? What are your thoughts?

Have you seen one up close? It's about the size of a Cessna 210 inside.

 

All the VLJs (actual and pending) are about that size, aren't they?

 

Well, I guess it depends on what you consider to be a VLJ. The Citation Mustang is much larger inside... the Cirrus thing, if it ever gets built, is smaller.

The Eclipse is probably okay if you only plan to travel by yourself, but if you want to take a couple of people with you, it's really small. It's too small for me, especially if I'm spending a couple of million to buy it.

 

Some interesting specifications for the Eclipse 550 jet.
Fly the Eclipse 550: The Most Fuel-Efficient Jet on the Planet

Fuel burn rate at max cruise speed is 59 gph.
Full fuel capacity is 251 gals.
Max range is shown at about 3.5 hours in their mission planning map (extra fuel burned on take-off & initial climb).
Max cruise speed is 375 kts (430 mph).

Useful load is 2400 lbs.
Full fuel is 1698 lbs.
When full, payload is limited to 702 lbs (total for people and baggage).
Obviously, one could take less fuel on board to get more payload for shorter trips.

Looks like a good plane for trips less than 1200 miles or so in length.
A coast-to-coast trip will require refueling somewhere in the middle of the country.

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How many people in your family? And, would you fly it yourself or have a professional pilot?

Also, when you mention 4 seats in the cabin, do you mean 4 seats plus the two pilot seats? Because if you do, that last seat goes where the baggage would go otherwise. I'm not sure where you would put baggage with that seat there.

 

Get a Pilatus.

I did the math on every single pilot option out there from Phenoms to Eclipse to CJ3. $2.8 million for an Eclipse is nuts when you could buy a very, very low hour Phenom 100 with a G1000 for $2MM.

Of course the PC12 NG is a lot more money but they hold value because they do everything well.

 

PC-12 is great if you need the cabin. If you are just traveling by yourself or with one other person, it's probably overkill (unless you travel with massive amounts of baggage).

I agree on the Phenom. I'd look there first.

 

I'd be careful with the early 500's. Make sure they have been properly upgraded, especially the avionics. Early Avio equipped planes had limits, and the duct-tape GNS-400 installation was not fully integrated. From the advertisement it appears they fixed the engine combustor issue and may have gotten the altitude restriction removed. That would be a big plus in economy, which was already darn good.

That said, I read a lot of debate on a pilot forum regarding the 500. Bottom line is that the plane did what was advertised. One party to the debate was a couple who upgraded from a C340. They flew a lot of transcontinental flights (Norcal to Florida/Bahamas). For the two of them (both rated pilots) it served all their mission requirements. For shorter trips they would have 4 aboard with extended weekend luggage.

Every plane as a defined mission. Don't let inadequate definition of what your mission is, or mission creep, often gives a bad rap to a worthy airplane.

 

I would be careful about letting the tax tail wag the dog. You may find that any tax savings are far outweighed by the savings of buying a used airplane for much less money.

As for pilots, I would suggest going with a reputable management company, if you aren't going to fly it yourself. If you are interested, they may even be able to offset some of your costs through a charter program-- if you want that. Don't figure that charter will actually make a profit, but it can cover some of your fixed costs.

 

Scott,

I'm thinking you might want to explore some fractional ownership options given the fact that you're also looking for a pilot along with the jet.

I did a google search for jet charter companies in KY since you're in Bowling Green, KY.
Here is an interesting Phenom 100 fractional ownership offer for a jet charter company in KY:
Co-Ownership Packages | Mid America JetMid America Jet

The 1/4 ownership option for $925k gives you 50 flight hours at $1200 per hour.
This might be a great way to have a jet at your disposal without all the upfront costs of buying one and the challenge of managing a pilot and maintenance.

Good luck.
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Now that Eclipse is back up and running this aircraft is a good contender at the price for a VLJ. I have been in the market for a while so I have tried all the current VLJ's and flown them.

I visited the Eclipse ABQ factory a few months back and flew a Total Eclipse for about an Hour to El Paso and Back. The airplane performed very well and the Avionics were simple to pickup if you have some glass cockpit experience. (I fly a G1000 Columbia)

The four seat configuration is actually a lot more roomy than I expected. I have flown the Citation Mustang and the Phenom and the Eclipse flew on par with the Mustang. Both are very easy flying aircraft. The Phenom is a nicer aircraft inside than both the eclipse and the Mustang but the Phenom was a handful of aircraft and especially with the electronic brakes which are terrible IMHO. I would be pensive to land with the brakes of the Eclipse on any wet runway no matter how long.

The six seat configuration in the Eclipse is definitely tight although kids and small adults won't mind from sitting in it myself.

A big drawback of the Eclipse is that it is very hard find a big aviation lender who will touch it from my experience. PNC and the other big lenders want a track record before they lend on these aircraft again and the Eclipse is a non-starter for alot of lenders. Even if you have the cash to pay in full for the aircraft you will definitely have some resistance when selling as not many bank will finance it which limits your market to sell it.

 

My thought as well.

We're looking for something to suit the same mission - 3 or four passengers for travel from FL to NY or Bahamas. Phenom 100 seems the best choice for cost/hr and "lower" entry price point.

 

I am a partner in a Cessna CJ with a G-1000 and there are a few other things to consider as well.

The biggest issue is that several engine manufacturers are almost forcing you to go to some form of power by the hour engine program. That in itself is no problem and a great deal for us. But if you don't operate the aircraft at least 150 to 200 hours per year you still have to pay for those hours. I think we pay around 190 per hour for engine reserve's and the last quoted overhaul price was $808,000 per engine. And they were very sketchy with that number. I believe they are trying to turn engine overhaul's into a recurring revenue stream. That of course is a great business model and the advantage for us is that resale values should be better for aircraft on the program since there is a reserve fund for the overhauls and the overhaul is guaranteed to be accomplished with no extra cost.

They also extended the overhaul times for engines "on the program" as compared to engines that are not paid by the hour.

The other thing to look into is the initial and recurrent training costs for the pilot. Simcom was in the $17,000 range, plus 2 weeks away from work and in a hotel. Recurrent costs can be as little as $5,000.00 but I would be worried that a part time pilot may not be available when you need them or they move away for a better job. And then you have to pay for another initial training.

We passed on the Phenom due to our familiarity with Cessna and they have a 30 minute wait time for the brakes to cool down. Although this may be only for heavy useage. The Phenom has a cheaper maintenance program and I believe it has a little bit nicer interior.

 

Eclipse is a nice plane. I was at their plant last summer and was in a 550.

One thing to consider is the GA market is very depressed. Look at the numbers, but be willing to negotiate. You should be able to get a great plane for a great deal now.

That said, it's hard to find a single aircraft that can fit every mission. Fleet time is probably the better fiscal choice.

Good luck

 

What does that mean??

You don't like the 550 brakes or...?


Did you like the electric brakes on the Phenom?

 

Eclipse, Phenom, or Mustang. Buy any one of them.....or all of them! Best engines in the business, made right here in Canada.

 

Yup, and get ready to bend over when PWC sticks it to you in the PBTH or at OH time....

Ask the overhauler if he is going to kiss you when you get an overhaul because you're used to getting kissed just before you get screwed....

As my college prof used to say, you'd be better able to identify those guys if they wore a mask and a gun... $800k for an OH is highway robbery. Their cost for ALL NEW engines is lower than that, and I know that for a fact.

 

On any of these airplanes, the engine power by the hour program is really a must-- and while you can argue that it costs a bit more than not having it, it is insurance against any unfortunate surprises.

However, the point that many of these programs have minimum annual usage requirements is critical. I know someone who took a bad hit when his usage was considerably below the annual minimum, so read the fine print!

 

You should look at the Citation Bravo or Ultra along with the Phenom. I've known three first-time owners who bought the Eclipse, all moved to a larger bird in under 2 years. I thought the rapid depreciation was allowed for used or upgrading aircraft?

The buying process is usually: determine normal & maximum pax load, trip length, maximum budget, then choose the plane last. I agree on the PBTH, it's a requirement IMO.

 

You may want to talk to your tax guy. My understanding is 50% the first year and a 5-year write-off. In some cases it's for used aircraft also, but it's been a couple years since we did one.
I had a client who went from a C-414 to a Mustang because he was tired of making 3 fuel stops from MI to LA. With the Mustang, he makes 2 stops.