How does a commercial flight land at wrong airport? | FerrariChat

How does a commercial flight land at wrong airport?

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by italiafan, Apr 13, 2014.

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  1. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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  2. gurslo

    gurslo Formula 3

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    Good question. I look forward to replies from the experts here. Many offer thorough answers in this section.
     
  3. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
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    #3 kylec, Apr 13, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
    Crappy radar system on the ground, overloaded or distracted ATC, runways were very similar in orientation. The airport they landed at was before their destination, so it's not like the tower watched them pass by and didn't say anything.

    They were on a visual approach- the general inclination for humans to believe they are seeing what they want to see.
     
  4. gurslo

    gurslo Formula 3

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    I was under the impression the radar system was addressed to a specific airport and acted as a guidance. Planes I have flown in as a passenger, the pilot had to communicate with an area ATC, circle in a pattern and the land. That was a small airport. On the last commercial flight, it seemed we circled for a bit and then landed. Wouldn't any plane have to be told to join the pattern and when it can land? It just seemed odd to me an airliner could show up and land without an ATC granting permission.
     
  5. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's not that hard to do. I think every pilot who has flown for any appreciable amount of time has started to do this a few times, but either they've caught themselves by double-checking, or the system alerted them to the issue.

    Usually stuff like this involves multiple factors-- runways which are the same orientation, night, distraction, complacency, visual approach, area with lots of airports... Will a controller who is paying attention alert you, if they notice? They should, but they get distracted or complacent as well.

    The avionics system I'm flying with now (Garmin) will show the runway on the EFIS if an approach has been selected. Thus, I usually select an approach, even if I'm not flying it... but could the key word there is "usually."

    One issue is that runways tend to be aligned with the most common wind direction in an area (if there is one). Thus, if there are several airports close by, it's not unusual that the runways will all have similar alignment.
     
  6. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Also, in case you are interested, the NTSB just put out a "Safety Alert" on this topic.

    http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/safetyalerts/SA_033.pdf
     
  7. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    You have to be a moron to land at the wrong airport.

    I hope I never do it.
     
  8. gurslo

    gurslo Formula 3

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    Maybe it takes making this mistake in order to understand how easy it can happen?
     
  9. rcallahan

    rcallahan F1 Rookie
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    It is easy to land at the 'wrong" airport. It is usually at night but could also be during the day. It is always a visual approach.
     
  10. FERRARI-TECH

    FERRARI-TECH Formula 3

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    .
    "There but for the grace of god go I" ;)

    I hope I never do either, and I didn't understand how it could happen, but having spoken to many of my commercial/airline friends I have an understanding of how it could happen. Weather its just taking things for granted or laziness we wont know. Closest example I could think of around here would be someone unfamiliar with the area flying from the east into Oxnard, (OXR) at night breaking out of IFR 10-15 miles out you are going to see KCMA first which is almost in direct line with Oxnard and has a bigger runway. Given the right conditions in a big fast moving jet I could see calling "airport in sight" and landing KCMA. They are close enough where the controller might not notice.

    But other than that what do I know...LOL :)
     
  11. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    I always load an approach to the runway I want. Hasn't failed me yet.
     
  12. TimN88

    TimN88 F1 Veteran

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    I'd be more inclined to blame the pilot, rather than ATC or runway layouts of nearby airports. How hard is it to back up a visual approach with a published approach, or at least brief the airport environment. These situations always seem to involve landing at smaller airports- without all the stuff on the ground you might expect to see at the intended destination. Even a quick brief may have helped.

    I do agree with you though in that often times we see what we want to see. Its a mistake I hope I never make because thats probably a way to get your wings clipped.
     
  13. RWP137

    RWP137 Formula 3

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    #13 RWP137, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    People often ask and this is the example I give them. The southern runways belong to El Paso. The Northern runway is Biggs Army Base. Imagine breaking out of the clouds at 8000' at night with the approach controller leading you to take the visual approach. This way he is no longer responsible (terrain separation, etc,) You've been flying all day, your tired, and just thinking about getting to the hotel. Approach controller tells you to contact the tower, who clears you to land RWY22 and then goes back to eating his microwave leftovers. Our approach speeds are around 160 IAS, so it would happen quick. It can be easy to do, which is why I back up every visual approach with a published procedure. If I'm feeling lazy I just think about the PA announcement I would have to make to the passengers if I landed at the wrong airport. Instant motivation.
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  14. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Do you only land on runways served by an instrument approach?

     
  15. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    I can build an approach to any runway on the planet in my airplane.

    With WAAS and GPS approaches, an approach exists for almost every runway on the planet. This isn't rocket science. If you land at the wrong airport you're just lazy.
     
  16. rcallahan

    rcallahan F1 Rookie
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    Ask the NWA guys how they landed at BRU instead of FRA! even the PAX knew it was the wrong airport because of the flight displays in the back.
     
  17. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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  18. rcallahan

    rcallahan F1 Rookie
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    brussels, frankfort.
     
  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There certainly are runways, and many airports, which are not served by instrument approaches.

    The danger you face is in thinking that you will ALWAYS build the approach, or enter it, and believing that will protect you. Yes, it will, right up until it doesn't because you didn't set it up-- because you were tired, it was at night, maybe you had a last minute change of runways (but you believe you have the airport in sight), etc.

    If you believe it can't happen to you, that's when it most likely will. But I'm sure that adage doesn't apply to you.

     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Stuff happens. Has been happening since man first started flying. In WW-I, Brits flying aircraft from the UK to France for operations often made one or two stops in France before getting to the correct airfield. In some cases only half the aircraft made it and the other half crashed. The first British heavy bomber going to France, a Handley-Page 0/100, landed at a German controlled airfield and was captured before ever seeing service. Nice intelligence bonanza.

    In the 70s at Cannon AFB, a Navy T-33 called Cannon (NM) tower for an overhead approach. When told by tower that they did not have them in sight, the crew said airport in sight and landed. At Clovis Municipal, 15 nm away. They were grounded and someone else flew the aircraft home. There was a TACAN, ASR, and PAR at Cannon.

    Humans screw up.
     
  21. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    Please see my first post in this thread. You're so sensitive.
     
  22. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The one which says you'd have to be a moron to land at the wrong airport, or the one which says you are lazy if you do?

     
  23. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    You also selective read what you want.
     
  24. Schimpf

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    I can understand if orentation of runways are similar & airports are located close that it can happen; I'd like to think the pilots would check their instruments (map/gps) & confirm though..

    I remember a couple people landing on the taxiway at KAPA when I was training...I will never understand how that happens when lights are working properly. That's not to say I've lined up on final to the wrong runway before...
     
  25. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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