Some old pictures of P-38 photo-recon, P-47 + wrecks of BF-109 and more in France...

Cyril- Looks like they were taken at a Free French AF base. Very nice. The Lightnings shown are photo-recon F-5s, fairly late models. Early P-38 photo-recon birds were F-4s and when production switched to the much improved P-38G, the photo-recon version was designated F-5A. Looks like the one in the photos is based on the P-38J or L and too much in the weeds for me which model F-5 that is.

Love the Frenc fighter, a Dewoitine, I think, but not sure. Very rare although a bunch of them did make it over the Channel after the invasion.

Great photos and not too many seen of Free French forces and aircraft.

 

Terry,

A Dewoitine 520 it is indeed, but - to nitpick - no D.520 ever crossed the channel.
They were evacuated in french North Africa for most, and then in Syria for some others later where they fought the british in 1941.

Some of those that remained in France were induced in the Luftwaffe, where they were not very much liked due to them being rather exacting to flight, and not forgiving, with a tendancy to violent stalls and drop from the sky under certain condition in tight turns if not fully mastered by their pilot.
Some were also sent to Bulgaria.

The last one were put back in service late in 1944 with the French Forces of the Inside, notably to fight over the "Atlantic Pockets".

Note that a D.520 was rebuilt to flying condition at the beginning of the eighties; it was c/n n° 408, even if painted in the colors worn by c/n n°90 during the battle of France. It flew back in 1980, but crashed in 1986 in a meeting in Vannes after diving into the ground for reasons that were not understood, killing its pilot, Commandant Bove.

A video and a pic from it here:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpilvRFPl7E[/ame]

http://aama.museeairespace.fr/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FDewoitine520-pegase139p13-3aama.jpg&md5=8fc40265ec3d0f744f8b8f93962ee28e4cc9078a&parameters[0]=YTo0OntzOjU6IndpZHRoIjtzOjM6IjgwMCI7czo2OiJoZWlnaHQiO3M6NDoiNjAw&parameters[1]=bSI7czo3OiJib2R5VGFnIjtzOjQxOiI8Ym9keSBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luOjA7IGJh&parameters[2]=Y2tncm91bmQ6I2ZmZjsiPiI7czo0OiJ3cmFwIjtzOjM3OiI8YSBocmVmPSJqYXZh&parameters[3]=c2NyaXB0OmNsb3NlKCk7Ij4gfCA8L2E%2BIjt9


Rgds

 

Interesting pictures, Cyril! Thanks for sharing.

 

nerofer- Thanks, I had forgotten about them fighting in North Africa, if I ever knew it. Beautiful airplane and a shame none are still flying.

Great photos that remind me of my Dad's album. He flew P-47Ds late in the war from France and Germany with the 86th FBG. His album contained F-5 and Spitfire photos, as well as lots of Jug photos.

 

Terry,

Just for the records :
Four Dewoitine 520s remained complete during the seventies; when the “Warbirds” trend began to gain momentum in the world, it was then decided to bring one to flying condition again.

The first candidate was c/n n° 862, which was gate guardian at the Luxeuil air base, because a team of devoted mechanics had already brought back its Hispano engine to running order as a hobby.
However, when the aeroplane was thoroughly inspected with the perspective of returning it to flying condition, it was discovered that its main wing spar was slightly distorted, this, among other things, affecting undercarriage retractation. (Note that it is very probable that the wings from 862 are not original, but come from c/n 664; as you know, for old aeroplanes it is common practice to accept that its identity is the one of the fuselage)
It was therefore decided to swap 862 with c/n 408, which was preserved at the Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace at le Bourget, and was in better overall condition

- 862 went to le Bourget (and took the place of 408) where it still can be seen today (painted in the colors of c/n 277).
- 408 was brought to flying condition, and flew until 1986 (painted in the colors of c/n 90) when it crashed after a dive at the Vannes meeting, killing its pilot (Its tail remains to this day, painted again under the colors of another aeroplane)
This had a profound effect on the “Musée de l’Air” which decided then that no other aeroplane from its collections would ever be brought back to flying condition again.

Besides 862 (masquerading for 277) which can be seen at Le Bourget, two other aeroplanes remain today:
- 603, which is undergoing a very thorough restoration in Bordeaux by a small group of enthusiasts, this to full original condition.
- 650, which had been converted in a two-seater at the end of the second World War.

The link hereunder will bring you directly on the page of c/n 408; it is in French, but it is the pictures that counts.
At the bottom of the page, you will find the c/n of the three other aeroplanes (603, 650, 862): by clicking on these numbers, you will have access to their own pages and pictures

Dewoitine D-520 n°408

Any discussion about the French fighters of the “Battle of France” should mention also the Arsenal VG33, which was, performance-wise, at least the equivalent of the D 520, but slightly too late to enter service, except for two of them. But that would bring us a bit “out of the topic” I guess…

Arsenal VG-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Rgds

 

nerofer- Thanks for the information. I read Closterman's book decades ago, but there does not seem to be much in English on the Free French AF in WW-II.

 

Yes Terry, that’s a pity ; remember that Clostermann’s book has some contradictions with the historical truth (that, in some cases, even ended in court cases in France…) but that would be for the Free French.
What is indeed a pity is that there is even less in English for the period that encompass the Dewoitine D520 discussed here, namely september 1939 – June 1940 (the “phoney war” and the “battle of France”).

Most English and American airplane enthusiasts know about the Dewoitine 520, which has a soft spot in the French enthusiasts’ heart as an achievement of the French industry, an aeroplane more or less capable of matching the Messerschmitt 109, but that came “too little, too late”.
But unfortunately, most American / English readers do not know, due to the absence of books in English about that period, that for the french "Armée de l’Air" pilots the most efficient fighter of the period in term of results, and also the most loved by far, was the Curtiss H75, the french export variant of the american Curtiss P36.

“Le Curtiss”, as it was called, was by far the most efficient “french” fighter:
No place here to get lost into the debate about the true number of victories of the French fighter pilots during the period September 1939 – June 1940, but any discussion on the total always ends by placing “Le Curtiss” at the top; latest figures I have found by type of fighter is: 229 confirmed for the Curtiss, 189 for the “Morane 406”, 150 for the “Bloch 152”, 108 for the D520.

If averaged by dividing the total of victories by aeroplane by the number of fighter wings equipped with the type, the efficiency of the H75 is even more telling:
An average of 46 victory for each wing equipped with the H75, against 22 for each wing of D520, 19 for each wing of Bloch 152, 16 for each wing of Morane-Saulnier 406

Taking the official Armée de l’Air list of Aces for this period, the first nine French aces ALL flew “Le Curtiss”:
Marin La Meslée (16 official victories + 4 probables)
Plubeau (14 + 4)
Dorance (14 + 3)
Accart (12 + 3)
Vasatko (Czech) (12 + 2)
Lefol (12 + 1)
Perina (Czech) (11 + 2)
Tallent (11 + 1)
Morel (10 + 2)

“Le Curtiss” was also much loved, as it was easy to fly with no vices, contrary to the D520 which was more dangerous and tricky to master. The Curtiss was also very manoeuvrable; its only drawbacks were that it was a bit short on top speed, and did not have cannon armament.
Furthermore, it was very dependable, and was responsible for the very high reputation Pratt and Whitney engines always had in France for years afterwards. During the very harsh winter of 1939-40, all the Curtiss-equipped wings were stationed in the eastern part of France, the coldest regions. Temperatures in the morning were always under the freezing point each day during that winter, but the Pratt and Whitney engines always started first time in the morning, which amazed the French mechanics, just as the extraordinary dependability of those engines which ran like swiss watches.
It was a stark contrast to the indifferent French aero-engines of the period, which was one of the reason that the French aviation industry was lagging at the time, but that is another story…

Rgds

 

Neofer- Lots of enthusiasts are discovering how much fun the Curtis pursuit planes are to fly, even if most are now P-40s with Allisons. Since we are not fighting a war, the extra performance of later WW-II fighters is kind of a moot point.

 

Jeffrey Quill, the famed Spitfire test pilot, flew an early Mk I Spitfire against a french Curtiss H75 during a test in the winter of 1939, and concluded that the Curtiss was "much more manoeuvrable" than the Spitfire...

Rgds

 

In WW-I someone did the same thing with a Halberstadt D.II vs an Albatros D.II, and the Halberstadt flew rings around the Albatros. But the Albatros was a far superior fighter overall.

 

Oh, no doubt at all, Terry, of course! Don't get me wrong: it was simply to say that in any discussion about french fighters, the Curtiss should not be overlooked. I am always surprised that it tend to be overlooked, because it did a very creditable job.
The most interesting thing is that before the war, the french parliament repeatedely tried to void the buy and the contract, because they thought that the H75 was way overpriced (about twice the price of a MS 406 or Bloch 152).

Rgds