What would you have done? | FerrariChat

What would you have done?

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by jcurry, Jul 28, 2014.

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  1. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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  2. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    Land in the ocean......

    "Engine trouble for an hour"?

    This guy should be in jail.
     
  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Plane was wrecked either way. Should have put it in the water.

    He might have thought he would miss them. A lot to think about with a dead stick.
     
  4. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Looking closer at the pictures the left wing is extending over the water and has the impact damage. Also a pretty narrow beach.

    Yes, he should have put it in the water, and likely the guy he hit would have been the first one to reach him and pull him to safety.
     
  5. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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  6. norcal2

    norcal2 F1 Veteran

    I see the 9 year old died also from her injuries.sad..there should be consequences...
     
  7. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    anything, just NOT hit people...

    the plane was already scrap, put it anywhere... they could have walked to shore....

    poor judgement, penalty should be same as using a gun
     
  8. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Agree. To me if there are people on the landing area, try to avoid them at all costs. It would have been a piece of cake to put it in the Gulf.
     
  9. BubblesQuah

    BubblesQuah F1 World Champ
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    Exactly. I was hoping there would be some reasonable explanation made - but it doesn't look like it.

    It appears the pilot valued his life more than those innocent bystanders - and made his choice with that in mind.

    Horrible.
     
  10. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
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    Plane in emergency kills S.C. beach jogger - US news - Life | NBC News

    In the article above, the same kind of thing occurred. On the beach after the prop separated during flight.

    So my pilot, Julie and I discussed this and decided that if this happens, we will land in the water even though we have those bulky wheels sticking out and a high wing rather than kill someone else, unless you know for sure it is clear.

    So being a novice, I have often wondered why airplanes don't have horns or sirens and have determined it must be for two reasons: Weight, and they normally are really loud.

    But, it would be interesting if you hit a button and a mechanical voice sounded off-Clean Prop! Or say you do have a Ferrari style air horn that you could hit to get folks attention. I just wonder how many of you still, even though the ramp may be empty, yell out the window like Julie-Clear Prop!! She does it by the book. Now where to put that horn.
     
  11. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    We don't know (I don't believe) the relative motion of the plane and the people. If he came at them from behind then blame on him. If he thought he had a clear landing location and they came out perpendicular to his path (he was silent, remember) then maybe this is just a tragedy.
     
  12. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    You've got a good point. The impact damage to the left wing leading edge doesn't look like water damage and if he did get his wing tip in, it would have spun the airplane and there would have been nose damage. Just at 60 MPH it would have yanked the airplane into the water and beat it up. Those are my old stomping grounds when I was flying a lot down there and I saw some water incidents. Just my thoughts.
     
  13. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    I doubt the folks on the beach could hear the plane, with the surf and no engine noise. If their backs were to the plane, didn't know it was there.

    If the plane was coming down nose high, maybe the pilot/pax didn't see the people if they walked out toward the water.

    Only damage I see is the wingtip (except for the nose gear; collapse on landing?).


    Jason's comment "engine trouble for an hour"... I didn't see that anywhere... where is that from?
     
  14. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    I'd want to know all the facts before passing judgment. It is hard to imagine anyone deliberately hitting or even flying toward people even in an emergency landing. He obviously got it down very softly on the sand, and may have misjudged how far he'd go after the flair and had no control authority when hit the people, or they may have come into view too late for him to see/avoid.
     
  15. docmirror

    docmirror Formula Junior

    May 6, 2004
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    Brief account by pilot.

    Pilot in Venice crash that killed 2: 'I didn't see anyone' | HeraldTribune.com

    What would I do? Well, given this case, with this exact set of circumstances, I might have done exactly the same. Look for a beach without people and land on it. He made a mistake, and it cost other's lives. It happens on the nations highways EVERY DAY.

    Maybe I'm the only one that has a problem criminalizing accidents. Life is complicated.
     
  16. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    How does one do this looking through the window of a small plane with no engine going 100mph? Planes aren't designed to be able to pick out people on the beach while crashing.

    You know where there are no people? A few hundred yards off the beach.
     
  17. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Jason,

    That's easy to say.

    I very much doubt that he chose to risk others lives in order to reduce the risk to his own. Now two people are dead as a result of his choices and, aside from all other consequences, he will have to live with that knowledge for the rest of his life.

    What if he hit the water and killed a swimmer? What if he hit the water, flipped the plane (low wing, fixed gear) and killed his passenger? It sounds like he scanned the beach, didn't pick anyone up in his scan and set it down thinking he was taking the lowest risk option for all. Unfortunately, his scan was inadequate.

    Hind sight is always 20/20.


    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  18. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    Flying your own airplane is no different than firing a high powered rifle into the air.

    Under what scenario do you think the pilot is not fault?
     
  19. Thomas Magnum

    Thomas Magnum F1 Veteran
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    What?
     
  20. Mkeeg12

    Mkeeg12 Karting

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    It's pretty easy to armchair quarterback this after the fact. It's a terrible situation and a horrible outcome. I am curious how many commenting on this are actually pilots and have had an emergency situation. It's not like a car that you can just pull over and park.
     
  21. docmirror

    docmirror Formula Junior

    May 6, 2004
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    I'm an actual pilot, and since 1978 and 1000's of hours I've put three fixed wing planes down in emergency. Bent some metal but never an injury. (knock wood)

    For those seeking the pilot's neck, be careful what you wish for. Criminalizing stuff could easily get out of hand. Some sad day, if you have a flat tire at 80MPH on the freeway and kill a vet and his daughter, you too could wind up in prison for years.
     
  22. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    I'm an actual pilot with thousands of hours also. Hell, I fly every day.

    I don't envy this pilot that landed on the beach. But he did land on the beach and not the million square miles of ocean right next to the beach. You're right, we need to be careful or this stuff will get criminalized. How do we be careful? Let's start by not landing on the beach and instead put it in the water. The beach is the most populated land in the U.S. nowadays. It's not a place to land an airplane.
     
  23. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie

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    BS, I'm not a pilot, but I am an auto driver, I doubt blowing a tire at a 100 is the same as gliding at 100, one is much more quick.

    Landing on a beach, go to the water, 200' out, well past where people swim. If you live great, if not, oh well, you know the risks of flying.

    Don't make this about the possibility of criminalizing everything. He should be charged. He made a poor decision, people get charged for making poor decisions everyday.

    Would you be saying the same thing if he took out 20 people instead of 2?
     
  24. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    That's the bottom line. Doesn't take being a pilot to understand. I agree.
     
  25. docmirror

    docmirror Formula Junior

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    Meh - maybe I'm wrong, and landing on a beach is negligent. Easy to have 20-20 hindsight. Put myself in the same seat, with the same situation and I might chose the beach too. That's all I'm getting at regarding this thread. Somewhere out there in the NTSB files there's other pilots who've landed on the beach and no one died. Taking actions to improve one's own chance for survival by choosing the shore over the ocean is defensible to me, maybe not to others. So far, I haven't heard any negligent actions after the fact of the emergency, or before the emergency(ran out of gas, no oil in engine). He crashed, others died, very sad, but criminal? I guess we will see what we will see.
     

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