Lockheed L-1011 lower deck lounges | FerrariChat

Lockheed L-1011 lower deck lounges

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Flash G, Oct 11, 2014.

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  1. Flash G

    Flash G Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #1 Flash G, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Stumbled upon this the other day and thought it was kind of interesting. A small number of L-1011 jets had "secret" lounges where the forward cargo hold would go. A small staircase led to the lounge.

    Anyone ever seen this or been inside one? Apparently, PSA had them in all of their L-1011s.
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  2. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That is really cool.

    Of course, to me, the more amazing thing is that PSA somehow thought they could make money flying L-1011s between LAX and SFO...
     
  3. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    No longer in business, self critiquing. :)
     
  4. Flash G

    Flash G Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I think the two fatal crashes helped do them in as well.
     
  5. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
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    love the furniture, what looks like a Shelby Williams Pod Lounge Chair
     
  6. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    apparently still viable in ohio?? under us airways.....
     
  7. Flash G

    Flash G Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 Flash G, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    They were one of the four airlines that merged into USAir.

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  8. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    Does anyone but the Royal Air Force (UK) still fly L-1011s?
     
  9. Flash G

    Flash G Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Flash G, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Apparently, the RAF doesn't even fly them anymore - according to this:


    The Lockheed L1011 – Saying Goodbye to Another Trijet

    By Bernie Leighton on March 24th, 2014

    While 2014 may have been the end of commercial DC-10 services, many forget that the RAF (Royal Air Force) has been operating Lockheed L1011s (called “TriStars” in their parlance) as air-to-air refueling aircraft. Unfortunately for trijet enthusiasts, today marks the end of their service in the RAF. Even worse, they will be broken up in Bruntingthorpe.

    As the resident Trijet Enthusiast – I was hoping for a little more notice from the RAF as to when the last RAF Tristar flight would happen. Thankfully, we have someone else who will be able to take the last flight and produce a fine report for AirlineReporter. As we await that final dispatch, let’s take a look back at the L1011 – an historical aircraft that even could have changed the pace of the Cold War.

    Much like the DC-10 (sans military involvement) the L1011 started with a request from American Airlines for a widebody airliner smaller than a 747 that had similar, if not identical, range. The L1011, unlike its competitors, was a much more optimized design. Though mechanics and engineers disliked an engine being hidden in an S-duct in the aft fuselage behind the pressure bulkhead, it was more aerodynamically efficient. The aircraft was one of the first to feature a truly independent autoland system (it was, indeed, the first aircraft the FAA certified for Cat-III-C autolandings), even automated descent control. This aircraft was on the bleeding edge of technology. So advanced, in fact, that the original and long-term goals of the L1011 were to manufacture it as a “jumbo twin”.

    Unfortunately, its Rolls Royce RB211 engines were also ground breaking. Though Rolls Royce had been working on their signature triple-spool turbofan since 1965, this was the first aircraft to feature it. For around $533,000 (U.S.) per engine, Rolls Royce was offering unheard of efficiency and thrust, as well as lighter and stronger composite fan-blades.

    Unfortunately, the composite fan-blades led to massive delays with the engine. If that was not enough, a foreign exchange issue that involved Lockheed revenue sharing on the project sent Rolls Royce into bankruptcy. Clearly, they recovered, as the RB211 became one of the most successful turbofan engines, as well as industrial generators. It did, however, delay the L1011 by two years (unheard of in those times).

    When the first L1011-1 flew on November 17, 1970 (from the Palmdale facility), it was pretty much flawless. Despite Lockheed’s troubles over the years, they designed an amazing plane. Unfortunately, an amazing plane came at an amazing sticker price. Airlines could get a 747 for slightly more, or a DC-10 for a good deal less. Also, Lockheed rather misread the market and was too slow in offering a high gross-weight long-range version of the L1011 to compete with the DC-10-30. Compared to 446 DC-10s, only 250 L1011s were ever made.

    An Eastern Air Lines L1011 departing Miami. Photo- Torsten Maiwald
    An Eastern Air Lines L1011 departing Miami – Photo: Torsten Maiwald
    Eastern Air Lines was one of the most prolific operators of the type (and was a launch customer, along with TWA). Unfortunately for them, they were also the first to lose one of the type shortly after its introduction into service. Unlike the DC-10 accidents of the same era, Eastern Flight 401 was a fault of ambiguous electronics/human error. Nothing that would tarnish the type’s overall perception with consumers or earn it any onerous nicknames.

    The L1011 was designed with so much redundancy that there are even some bright sparks in its relatively small history of incidents and accidents. In the case of Eastern 935, the quadruple-redundant hydraulic system allowed all passengers to walk off the aircraft with nothing more than a few new grey hairs.

    The L1011 was an aircraft that was a bright point in an era of challenging reliability issues. I am sure I can find numerous A&P mechanics that will bitterly complain about some aspect (such as using a unique type of self-locking screw). Despite that, the service record was impressive. The L1011 was an aircraft of firsts and great engineering – it was merely a victim of product positioning and Rolls Royce.

    To maximize space, airlines tried to utilize “below deck” areas of the L1011. Of course neither PSA nor Court Lines ever really managed to make lower-lobe lounges and air stairs work, but they were an interesting marketing idea that only was ever tested on the L1011 in the west. The lower-lobe galleys were a little more popular, unfortunately. Flight attendants were not a fan of being stuck down below during meal preparation. Regardless, the late 1960’s was a time of rapid innovation and Lockheed was clearly game to try anything to sell a flagging aircraft.

    Those of us on the west coast probably encountered more L1011s based out of Delta’s long-gone Portland hub. The only L1011 I ever got to fly on was from Calgary to Toronto with Air Transat. Air Canada had already phased theirs out by the time I became a serious plane nerd, and even then, they never came west of Toronto.

    Most of them retired from commercial service in the early part of the last decade. The RAF, however, acquired their first L1011s in 1984; all of them second hand.

    An RAF TriStar refuels U.S. Navy F/A-18s over Afghanistan. Photo -Cmdr. Erik Etz, U.S. Navy U.S. Defenseimgery.mil photo 081009-N-7665E-004
    RAF TriStar refuels US Navy F/A-18s over Afghanistan – Photo: Erik Etz, US Navy Defenseimgery.mil photo 081009-N-7665E-004
    All the RAF TriStars were of the -500 variant. Fourteen feet shorter than the L-1011-1, it also was capable of carrying 8000 gallons more fuel. The nine aircraft came from British Airways and Pan American World Airlines. The TriStars entered service two years after Operation Black Buck, which is a shame as they would have made a huge difference.

    In service with the RAF the TriStar was used not only as a tanker, but transport, and even medical evacuation aircraft. They have been part of every NATO and coalition action since the Gulf War, up to and including Odyssey Dawn. In service with N0.216 Squadron, they will be replaced by Airbus A330-based Voyagers. The Voyagers will be based out of RAF Brize Norton, like the Tristars before them.

    I am aware that the Las Vegas Sands Corporation has two L1011s, but they are listed as stored- and one of them is at Don Muang Airport in Bangkok- rumored to have been damaged in the flooding a few years ago. It is highly unlikely they will take to the air again- but if they do, hopefully someone will sell seats!
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  10. MarkPDX

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    Interesting.... I didn't know the RAF was done with them.
     
  11. Crawler

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    From the above article: "This aircraft was on the bleeding edge of technology." :)
     
  12. Ak Jim

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    What kind of airplane is that?
     
  13. Flash G

    Flash G Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Airbus A319. A shorter version of the A320.
     
  14. Jet-X

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    PSA only took delivery of two L-1011s. Those aircraft went to Canada after but my understanding is the lounges were never used. Those aircraft also had an additional belly fairing to protect that area in the event of a gear collapse.

    Agreed on the craziness of LAX-SFO runs...they lost so much money that they cancelled all future orders and returned those two aircraft to Lockheed. PSA was a successful airline that USAir acquired them (and American Airlines acquired AirCal).

    BTW the DC-10 and MD-11 were selling the idea of further lower deck lounges or as business class seating to increase capacity. No airline ever took up the option.
     
  15. davebdave

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    I flew commuters with a pilot who used to be an Eastern Airlines Flight Attendant. Anyway, there was a TWA 1011 parked in a remote area of Boston where we flew Metroliners. He got permission to give a tour to several of us. There was a single person elevator that went to a lower galley that might have been where the lounge was. He said the cabin crew at Eastern would strip to their underwear and party their asses off down there.
     
  16. Jet-X

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    Nope not quite. L-1011s had a lower deck galley and that was accessed by elevator. The galley was separated from the forward cargo area by a bulkhead. The "lounge" (which was the forward cargo area) was accessible by main deck stairs down to the lounge. On the short haul flights PSA was flying didnt need the forward cargo storage.

    No other carrier flew or equipped the area with an lounge. And when PSA sold their L-1011s the next carrier (LTU I believe) removed the lounge and turned it back into a forward cargo compartment.
     
  17. Flash G

    Flash G Three Time F1 World Champ
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    PSA, Air-Cal, Reno Air, Hughes Air West, Western Airlines, Braniff, Eastern, Northwest Orient, People Express, TWA, Pan Am, etc... etc...

    Someone should start a thread on defunct airline brands.
     
  18. Jet-X

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    Don't give me any ideas....

    BTW - my son is named Braniff (yes, seriously)
     
  19. Ffinally

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    Eastern may not be quite defunct; the name and logo are planned to be used again later this year (theoretically). Even have some new aircraft on order.
     
  20. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    TriStar500.net - Blog

     
  21. Gatorrari

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    There are a couple of good books called "Deregulation Knockouts" which are quite eye-opening.
     
  22. DallasGuy

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  23. SAT4RE

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    As for the galley in the L-1011 - When I was a teenager, and my dad flew the L10 for Delta, I went with him on a trip to NY. During the flight, he had one of the flight attendants take me down the elevator to the galley. There were several other flight attendants down there just sitting around and relaxing. Kind of like a hangout for them during the flight. I thought it was pretty cool!
     
  24. davebdave

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    Eastern Air Lines Current Status
     
  25. Rifledriver

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    This sounds like the beginning of a letter in Penthouse.

    What happened next?
     

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