Where to start with Private Jet / Personal Jet

I know a GIV is about $800k annual budget....just to sit on the ramp. This includes hangar, insurance, crew etc. My generic advise is to have at least your purchase price in reserves. Try to get it with a management company so you get the fleet discount on fuel, insurance etc. BUT get the bare minimum of services from the company. They will try to get you to sign it up for charter to 'offset the cost of ownership'.

I would look at some sort of short term lease to get your feet wet. Ill ask my buddy for some links to get running costs per hour.

 

This forum is actually not a bad place to ask those sort of questions.

I agree completely with Christian, and I'd add that you really want to think about what the mission you have for the airplane is.

Where do you want to go?

How many people do you want to carry?

Is having a standup cabin important? How about a bathroom?

Are you okay with an older airplane, or do you need to have something new or newer?

What is more important to you, initial purchase price, or annual budget?

This last question is quite significant. You can get a GIV for about 15% of the initial purchase price of a new G550, yet the annual budget will be about the same, or maybe a little more on the GIV.

 

With the same flying time the operating budget on G4 would exceed the G550 by about 30% I was told.

 

I'm sure the more you fly it, the better the 550 looks in comparison.

 

Suggest you go to PPrune.org to to the section titled Biz jets, Ag, GA and look through the various threads. You'll see this group of mostly professional pilots often provide useful cost and operational guidance to newbies.

 

I wouldnt doubt it. The GIV fleet is an older compared to the 550's. Display units are $40k a pop and a windshield is $72k installed. Now, you can go on the Honeywell program for $50k(?) a year and anything that is made by Honeywell is covered......with a reconditioned unit. I am on my 2nd replacement Display Unit (we have 6 installed) in the last 16 months. I suspect a 3rd is getting ready to give up the ghost. As the GV/550's are getting up there in age, they will also see a higher direct operating cost due to age of components.

If I was recommending an aircraft to a friend, the first things I would ask is 'what will be your typical mission' and 'how many hours a year do intend on flying' and finally what is your budget with reserves? His answers would dictate whether to rent or buy. Then I could give a recommendation on what type of plane to get depending on budget and mission type.

Ill expand a little more on the budget considerations. You will have fixed and variable costs. The fixed costs are pilot salaries, pilot training, insurance (airframe, avionics, engines), scheduled MX (A, B, C checks) hangar fees, management fees.

Variable costs: Fuel is a biggie. San Diego is $7.10/gal, Van Nuys $4.50, FLL $4.00, Teterboro $6.00. Your base airport might be cheap or expensive. Maintenance cost is the other big variable. An older plane is going to naturally have higher running costs. My owner doesnt thing twice about paying a $50k bill.

As far as regulation goes, a Part91 (privately operated) planes are less regulated than a Part 135 (charter operated aircraft). Same thing goes with the pilots. I can do things with the owner that Im not legally allowed to do with a charter passenger. The part 135 plane has to maintained in accordance with all 135 MX regulations. It also has to pass a conformity check (proper placards, fireproofed seats etc). You might be able to lower your operating costs by putting it on a charter cert IF, IF, IF your plane type is a desirable model in a desirable market AND your MX bills are low (newer plane with low hours). Then you need to do a competent projected cost of ownership analysis. You might bring down your operating costs, but when its time to sell, the engines are timed out (need hot sections done) or the MX bills have far exceeded any revenue generated by charter. You might end up with a deeply depreciated aircraft. Thats when you look at your cost of ownership and divide it by the hours YOU flew on it.

Please do yourself a favor and hire a quality contract pilot to ride along with you. Expect to pay $400+ daily for a King Air/Lear guy and $1,000+ day for a Gulfstream guy. You might be Chuck Yeager reborn, but nothing can replace a type rated pilot with a couple thousand hours in your plane. I know a couple owner/pilots on big planes.....they always have professional pilots on the payroll. In retrospect, this could be considered a variable cost as the contract pilot would pay for his own training and you just pay his daily rate if you choose not to hire a full time guy.

You asked about pilot training costs. Im just going to assume you have the basics past and ATP since you said you flew long haul etc.

GIV type ratings are running about $24k for initial and $ 17k for recurrent.
GV/550/450 $40kish and $25 for recurrent.
I would guess that the VLJ types are about 60% of those numbers. Same thing with the older type ratings like Lear 35's Hawker 800's etc. The newer and bigger the plane, the more expensive the type ratings are.
G650 Type rating is $95k From Flightsafety.....just a little factoid.

Im not up to date on how often a Part 91 guy has to go to school as I go every 6 months.

A good aircraft broker should be wiling to give you some basic model specific Direct Operating Costs without getting all clingy.

Holy crap, didnt mean to post a book. Pick out the portions that you need and chuck the rest.

 

Don't scare him away! He's getting perfectly good answers here, answers that are probably better than he would get on PPrune.

He needs to come back and answer a few of our questions if he wants to find out anything useful.

 

Most Part 91 insurance requires sim training once a year.

You may be able to pull up some stuff by good use of Google, but anyone serious should probably have a look at Conklin & DeDecker. Although this might be a good alternative:

Aircraft Operating Costs Calculator | Aircraft Ownership Costs

 

I get a kick out of all the jet discussion. I personally have grown to dislike our company jet due to the real economic impact. it was fun for a while but after years of understanding the real costs...I don't really mind commercial aviation in the front of the plane as much.

good luck to the OP but I would rater have a fully funded formula atlantic season than a private jet.

 

If you want 1 airplane to handle all these missions you need a big jet. Gulfstream etc. You'll need a pilots and mechanics to run it. The cheapest way to do it is "run the hell out of it". Don't buy it and let it sit.

You can't run a Gulfstream for $1MM a year. It's gonna be a lot more than that. I fly myself internationally a lot and it's no joke with regards to planning and fees. To have a staff that can manage a worldwide G5 will run millions of $$ a year. It's gonna take a flight department.

 

You're too big for a vlj and they don't have the range. It sounds like you're in jet card territory to me.
You want to fly this thing yourself? Read Jason's posts about flight training and flying his pc-12. You will pay out the nose for insurance to fly a jet.

 

too few hours for full blown ownership

intercontinental flight with few passengers is extremely expensive per seat, especially with no "local flights at destination" to offset total trip cost

intercontinental vacation ... the flight crew and plane sit ( also vacationing ) on ground with expense meter running

remember the "meter" runs constantly 24/7, no revenue is generated when not in use, your budget has limits and admit having a frugal side... your cost per seat use is off the charts

etc etc

fractional ownership / jet card would give best return vs expense... and still have the optics appear as owning the plane

 

G150 or G200?

 

As cheesey points out, you are going to pay A LOT to have the ability to go to Europe and Asia. You really need something like a Falcon 50 at minimum for that mission, and a GIV is probably better. Sure, the purchase price won't be that bad, but the annual budget will get you.

Probably the cheapest airplane you could get (both in terms of operating cost and purchase) for that mission would be something like an Astra/G150, or maybe a Citation X.

NetJets might work, and might be the best option.

An alternative would be to work with someone to identify the type of airplane which fits your mission, and work with a quality charter operator (someone like EJM) to see if they could do sufficient charter work to offset a significant portion of your costs.

This does cause additional wear and tear, but the wear and tear should be offset by the revenue generated.

The quality of the operator is key in doing this right, however.

 

Yup. Most countries aren't like the U.S. Here you can just hop on your jet and go anywhere. Most other countries don't have airports all over the place. When I go to Mexico, I land at Cancun and drive. You're not gonna hop all over Mexico (just an example). There's not enough infrastructure to support it. Mexico is pretty good too. Argentina, Brazil, Costa Rica etc. are just not set up for private planes. Even when I land in the Dominican (El Catey) they look at me like I have 3 eyes and 2 heads. Most people aren't coming through these places in their own airplanes.

Being a pilot is a big plus. Nobody is ever going to pull the wool over my eyes. If you have a crew working for you they know the language. You don't. You're gonna get taken to the cleaners. Even my NetJets buddies get ripped off. Netjets will fly the longest route possible, run every arrival and departure procedure regardless of conditions because you're paying by the hour. NetJets to Aspen "oh, weather is at minimums, we're gonna divert to Centennial and wait a few hours then try again"..... Cha ching!!

G150-200 isn't big enough. Falcon or G4 at a minimum.

If I were the OP I would start with Flying Lessons. Learn the language.

 

2Tall,

My buddy got back to me and reffed me to this company. Its a pay to play but they have really good information regarding DOC's; https://www.conklindd.com/Default.aspx Same company DonV recommended earlier.

I just went over the numbers in my head......Champaigne taste, beer budget. Sorry, but your mission requirements say large cabin aircraft for the Asia and EU legs. Fixed costs are going to eat up your max budget every year. You would have to get 3 partners to get it down to a palatable level, 2 partners minimum.

150 hours a year is in my 'Rent dont buy' range. Who ever tells you to purchase an aircraft isnt doing you a favor and looking for a commission. Unless its a small plane to putt around the US which is fine with a launch point in Michigan or TX.

Jason1st.....I should expand on my $800k year quote. That is for the GIV to just sit in a flight ready state being managed by a third party. An internal flight department would be much higher. And yes I forgot to add international handling fees as a variable annual cost. Universal does my international handling, a 2 day London trip would be $10k in fees no problem.

Originally Posted by cheesey View Post
"intercontinental vacation ... the flight crew and plane sit ( also vacationing ) on ground with expense meter running"

This made me chuckle....My wife, company and passengers all see as us sitting on the beach sipping margaritas. But in reality we are working and waiting for the phone to ring. I was supposed to 'vacation' in Sint Maarten from Thurs morning until Monday afternoon last week. One of the Pax had an emergency back in LA. So we ended up doing two round trips from LA to TNCM in 4 days.

Im going on tour with a band to S. America for 19 days this week. Wife said to pack the sunscreen, Im bringing ear plugs.

 

try someone like Net Jets or Marquis that offer a jet card, for a year, commit to using your allocated budget and see how much you can fly on your budget... it should give a good idea of which aircraft fit you best as you can book the jet of your choice for each trip... flying solo you can book a small jet for the short local trips and use the larger plane for longer trips or more passengers... it will allow you to compare expenses...build a matrix of expenses vs type of plane used... the margins for the charter operators are lean and is a business that depends on volume to effect their profit...your charter expenses will not be significantly different from owning... if you end up purchasing, you will have a profile of usage... allowing to choose a plane that fits 90% of your use profile vs getting a plane that has only 20% utilization with respect to use profile and capability... it's all about costs especially since you have set budget limits... the perfect aircraft owner does not have budget constraints especially flying intercontinental

 

As stated above, choosing the right aircraft is all about the aircraft mission. This is why the fractional ownership/membership companies have flourished. It gives you a lot of flexibility. If you're going from LA to Vegas with 3 people you can take a Beachjet. If your going to Europe with 8, you can take a Gulfstream. Owning a jet has it's benefits, but for most I think the fractional/membership route is the best idea. Good luck!

 

This is an excellent idea.

 

That's right. 150 hours a year is nothing. You can blow through that in no time. I'm pushing 400 hours a year and I can easily go 7 days without flying. 150 hours a year would leave a flight crew sitting around most of the time.

Yes, I understand what you were saying about the "fixed costs" and I agree 100%. Planes eat a lot just sitting which is why I say if you're gonna own one the cheapest way is to run the hell out of it. Doesn't cost much more flying than it does sitting.

 

You may also want to consider charter. Get exactly what you want every time based on your trip. Pricing is a lot more attractive than Marquis/NetJets on an hour to hour basis ($3500/hr for Light-jet versus $5k on NetJets), BUT you have to deal with brokers and sometimes finicky owners/management companies. With NetJets/Marquis, you call, fixed hour cost, plane is ready in 12 hours. Broker is a longer process of quotes, airplanes differences and comparison, price negotiation, etc. Prices can also escalate with brokers on peak travel periods like holidays.

 

For 800K a year you can buy a crap load of first glass airline seats and go anywhere. But you still have to put up with the airport and tsa experience.