High tech 60 years ago | FerrariChat

High tech 60 years ago

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Bob Parks, Mar 28, 2015.

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  1. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #1 Bob Parks, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Quit laughing! Here is a serious (for once) photo of someone working on the drawings for the 707. Taken for a brochure, if I remember correctly, to advertise the 707. Mock up of the 707 and the number two engine. Can't believe that we really did dress that way in 1955.
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  2. ND Flack

    ND Flack Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2007
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    But where's your calculator??
     
  3. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Slide rule...
     
  4. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    The supervisors were STILL dressing like that when I hired on in the 80's.
     
  5. BubblesQuah

    BubblesQuah F1 World Champ
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    I like it.

    Serious look for serious business.
     
  6. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    When I started in 1974, the only difference from that photo is that the shirts were no longer white. Ties, nice pants and nice shoes were still standard at the time, and we still worked at drawing boards, though all but the diehards now had calculators.

    By the time I got to Boeing in 1979, "casual Fridays" were becoming common, with jeans, sneakers and no ties. At Boeing, though, by the time I left in late 1980, that was almost becoming everyday for some. I still wore nice pants and shoes but had ditched the ties by then. And button-down shirts were increasingly being replaced by polo shirts. Oh yeah, the first CAD systems (CADAM at Lockheed and Grumman, Gerber IDS at Boeing) were coming on line, but they were in separate "scope rooms", away from our desks.

    Today I wear polos, jeans and sneakers almost exclusively, as do most others, though a very few insist on white shirts, ties, and nice pants and shoes, but those guys look rather out of place today. And we all sit in cubicles with our computer on our desk. Only the engineering checkers still have drawing boards.
     
  7. Bob Parks

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    You're exactly right on all your recall. Now you can't tell the engineers from the mechanics some times. It is weird now not to se any drafting boards when you go into an engineering area, just cubicles and computers. In the 50's and 60's it was an open loft with a sea of drafting setups and clouds of cigarette smoke. Not anymore.
    I was wondering what building you worked in when you were on the 777. We started in an office building in Renton and then moved to another building in Factoria.
     
  8. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I worked in the 10-16 building in Renton (which I believe Boeing still occupies), but my group at that time moved to one of the new office buildings built for the program (40-87 or 40-88) in Everett.

    The funny thing is that on the day I was packing my stuff to leave and return to Grumman, all of my cronies were packing their stuff to move to the new building in Everett! So what I was doing wasn't any different from anyone else around me. This was in January of 1993, by the way.

    If I had stayed long enough to make the move to Everett myself, I figure that I would have kept my apartment in Factoria and taken the bus to the Everett plant from the Wilburton park-and-ride, which was about a mile north of my apartment just off I-405. Although a long bus ride every day doesn't really sound like fun, I would at least have liked to have tried it for a while.
     
  9. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #9 Gatorrari, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are a couple of columns that I wrote about 11 years ago for the newsletter of the Atlanta section of the AIAA. I describe what it was like to be a new aerospace engineer fresh out of college back in 1974!

    What's particularly amusing concerns the first task I was given to do: making a 3D model. Today we would do that on a computer, but in 1974? Cardboard and clay!
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  10. Bob Parks

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    I think that is the building of which I spoke earlier. We were on the top floor and we had to visit many disciplines on all floors almost every day. One weird incident occurred when I had to visit the instrument panel design people and discovered an engineer who was stationed with me at Hondo and Langley Field. He has since passed away but here he was working in the same company for years and we never knew it. It was here where I had an impromptu visit with Mullally when he wanted to look at the plot that I had printed of my AC pack design for the 777. Spread out on the floor of the lobby and him on his hands and knees looking at it. See if McNernny would have done that!
     
  11. --cresko--

    --cresko-- Karting

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    Actually the man in the photo looks quite up-to-date with 2015. Cuffs and skinnies. Hair is slightly hipster though :)
     
  12. Spasso

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    Now THAT's funny!
    I had breakfast with him this morning and he is still rocking the "hipster" hair.
    I guess he was a little ahead of his time.;)
     
  13. Nurburgringer

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    #13 Nurburgringer, Mar 30, 2015
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  14. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Not as much difference if the big fan is removed...
     
  15. Bob Parks

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    What the heck is hipster hair. Shall I find a new wig?
     
  16. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Remember, the JT3C was only good for about 13,000 lb of thrust (which is why they had to use water injection on takeoff). Today's high-bypass engines beat that by over 100,000 lb!
     
  17. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

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    Core power goes as a square of diameter x the fan pressure ratio change......

    If the core diameter is twice that of the JT-3 the power is 4 times, and then multiply that by the fan pressure ratio.. (the old turbojet didn't have a fan).. If the FPR is 1.3 and the core is twice the diameter (which it probably is close to), then the fuel burn for the same temperature is almost 5 to 6 times that of the older engine...

    Add to that the fact that the fact that modern engines have much higher pressure ratio and expand the gasses more, (a gain of close to 50% likely) as well as having much higher temperature (better thermal efficiency) and you could easily see that the big fan engine would make somewhere near 8 or 9 times the power of the early turbojet... Which it probably does..
     
  18. Bob Parks

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    Thanks for the lesson in power generation. I was always amazed that the core gas producer wasn't much larger in the new engines than they were 50 years ago but the power has increased so much. Big torque.
     
  19. SCousineau

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    I agree! That was one of the better tech explanations I have read in a while.
     
  20. Spasso

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    #20 Spasso, Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
    Don't worry, the hair style will be given a new name inside of 5 years.
    The "hipster" trend is dieing out.....
     
  21. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Pictures, got to have pictures!:D :D :D
     
  22. Spasso

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    There is a good one in the back of his book.
     
  23. Bob Parks

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    #23 Bob Parks, Apr 2, 2015
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  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob- Good looking family.
     
  25. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Thanks, Taz. Now all I have to do is to learn how to pull in the gut.
     

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