Advice on private jet charter please... | FerrariChat

Advice on private jet charter please...

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by 09Scuderia, Dec 31, 2015.

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  1. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2011
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    Max
    Good News: we are buying a house in Carmel by the Sea to escape the ATX, Texas summers.

    Bad News: 30 hour drive.

    Commercial would be a pain because we have 2 small dogs, a child etc.

    Looked into JetSuite. Their price for one way is $21k. CITATION CJ3 would be the plane. So, every year it would be $42k there and back.

    Options?
     
  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    I don't think any great options.

    1) First Class Commercial - less money, headache with pets & kids, but doable.

    2) Learn to fly, buy a plane. You have to love to fly and have the time to train and stay safe/current. I love to fly, but selling the private plane as commercial/charter sounding better to me now.
     
  3. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 30, 2007
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    the problem with commercial is your options are fly to SFO or SJC and drive, or a connecting flight into Monterey regional. neither seem like fun options on a regular basis, esp. with kids/dogs.
     
  4. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    charter is awesome, but so dang expensive you end up reasoning you will put up with commercial a day for the savings. :D

    I've had the same thoughts for personal plane, I take flying it so serious I start analyzing weather days ahead and don't relax until plane is up and parked. so many factors to weigh, no option is perfect.
     
  5. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2011
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    I think the bottom line may be that the all-in cost will be around $40k....4 hour flight.

    OR 30 hours in the car. The car happens to be a 2015 S550...but, 30 hours is still 30 hours.
     
  6. Joker

    Joker Formula Junior
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    I gave an opinion in the other thread - but you also have the option of flying commercial - but have someone arrange the luggage/dogs for you. You can pay people to do that. Hell, you can even hire a nanny to fly with you for the kids and still save a lot of $$$ over private.

    That said... Private IS nice. ;)
     
  7. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2011
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    Shoot, first class commercial and a limo pickup would be pretty easy and not too expensive. Have a car at your house... And a second set of dogs! 8^)

    I hit Carmel 3 or 4 times a year and it is only a 90 min ride from Silicon Valley...

    SV
     
  8. Stevenb

    Stevenb F1 Rookie

    Aug 5, 2012
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    This. I flew on a regular basis with a CJ4 from Germany to Italy for vacation. Used the helicopter to get to the island. We used private due to my step moms daughter having diabetes and needing flexibility. We had 5 people and a dog. No hassle what so ever and fast travel. When the daughter wasn't there we flew commercial and did what was stated above for the other kid. Took the ferry to the island. It was all good but takes a long time. Easy experience if you have help but still the annoying commercial procedure. The cost savings are so high though that it makes up for the hassle and gives us a big smile everytime :)
     
  9. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    Talk with several of your local flight management companies to see what they will offer for the flight. Explain how many times a year you are figuring on making the trip. Someone may show interest in a guaranteed block hour annual commitment. Negotiate!

    Negotiate on what you don't need too. Flight attendant, catering, flight planning. Also, make the quote be total charges. I mentioned flight planning because any decent pilot should be able to do all the fight planning themselves (no Universal Weather, etc.) for a pre-scheduled domestic flight.

    JetSuite and others in the fractional or pre-paid card are all expensive. Their specialty is guaranteed availability on short notice, convenience of one-call arrangements and if you do a lot of extended duration one way flights.

    It will never be cheap using corporate but the convenience and quality of experience is certainly quite nice.

    Jeff
     
  10. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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    Look for a decent charter operator in your area, or call EJM or Solairus. They're national operators with great reputations, and will cost you a little bit more than the local guys but you know you will get a quality operation.

    Also, Texas-Carmel seems a bit far for a CJ4. You really want something like a Hawker or a Sovereign for that trip. Yes, it will cost more, but in the grand scheme of things not that much more, and you'll be much more comfortable.
     
  11. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    How about a King Air charter? Slower/more stops/but less costly?
    Or a Socata or a Pilatus? (don't know correct equivalencies.....)
     
  12. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    A King Air might actually be more than a CJ4, depending on the type of King Air... it's quite a bit slower, resulting in more hours even though at a lower rate. Definitely don't take a King Air on that trip.

     
  13. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    +1.
    I wouldn't want to spend 4 hours in a Socata with family and kids, cost will be same or even higher too.
    4 hr flight will require a midsize with a lavatory.
     
  14. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #14 sherpa23, Jan 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
    SJC is a pretty easy drive to Monterey. I use a house in Carmel by the sea several times throughout the year and I don't ever have any issue with the drive. It sure isn't worth $3k to me to not make the drive, let alone 10x that. I would much rather put in a little effort rather than spend money needlessly. However, last 3 summers I found a lot of flights out to Monterey directly, which is easier. Lastly, if you fly private, most people end up flying into Salinas during the summer because of weather.

    I do have to ask, you know that Carmel in the summer is super foggy, right? The marine layer gets pulled inland and sunny days in the town are very rare.

    EDIT: I forgot to say that I had a Delta private card for a bit but never used it. I couldn't find a good reason to spend the money. As others said in the other thread you started about this, the surcharges were substantial. I will see if I can dig out my contract and post the prices for the various planes and hours and extra price dates.
     
  15. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

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    Commercial is much less than private, but the lack of convince is substantial. However the larger charter services are way over priced. Check around at the closest airport. Ask about their costs. I think you'll find a much lower price is you wrk at it. There are services that book "return" flights at much lower rates. Check those out, you'll be surprised at the prices.

    Art
     
  16. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    had a house 3 blocks from the village for 20+ years; foggy in the morning, hot sun midday, fog back in late afternoons. And Cali humidity levels, not Tex...:) Would rate weather overall fabulous.....

    Monterey Airport usually clear & sunny.
     
  17. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #17 sherpa23, Jan 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
    The house I use is on Carmelo, about 100 yards from the pebble beach gate. Maybe it's different that close to the water but I'm also an early am person who goes running in the fog in the am so I'm out a lot more in the fog than some. I have experienced some very nice afternoons at times. However, if you just go inland a little, it's always super nice.

    I have been rerouted from Monterey a couple of times for weather but that's probably just unlucky.

    I love winters in Carmel. The cool inland temps create a high pressure that keeps the marine layer just offshore.

    I'll be the first to admit that I don't know lots of things but these are my experience.
     
  18. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    Texas to Carmel is not a long flight. A CJ4 is perfect for that. I fly my Pilatus coast to coast all the time. Easy.

    Chartering is ridiculously expensive and the people involved in it are super shady. All it takes to be in the charter business is a cell phone, a nice suit and a Rolex. If I were chartering I'd be making a lot of calls.
     
  19. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    hey man curious if/how you compared and contrasted the delta product vs the netjets and XO equivalents?
     
  20. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    jetsmarter.com is another
     
  21. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    The upside was that I got preference when flying Delta, which seemed like a good idea at the time. The problem was that I never flew Delta. I do now when I go to Europe several times a year but I don't have that deal any more. I can send you my contract and pricing and you can look and see.

    One of the reasons that I strongly considered flying lessons was so that I could rent a Cirrus or something a few times a year and fly to Carmel. It's not a far flight and it made sense, both financially and from a convenience perspective. Unfortunately, that first time going up was a real eye opener…

    I'm sure I'll make a run at a pilot's license again at some point.
     
  22. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    thanks - no need to go dig it out
    i guess the way to figure this out is to see who actually owns their own planes. everyone else is essentially a broker accessing the same pool of planes
     
  23. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Do it. Even if you don't use it to travel, you'll never regret it. I got my license at 17; it's still one of the accomplishments of which I am most proud. I can't wait until my future daughter is old enough for me to share my love of flying with her (assuming she enjoys it).



    Mark
     
  24. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    Renting a Turbo Cirrus will not be easy. If you do find one, you won't just be able to keep it sitting on the ground at your destination. The guy renting it will want it back because it only makes money if it's flying.

    I have a friend that owns Ascension Air. It's a fractional Cirrus program. You buy in but even then you can't just keep the plane indefinitely at your destination.

    You can buy a really nice Turbo Cirrus for $300K nowadays. A nice Cirrus will replace a lot of commercial flights. I'd fly a Cirrus from TX to Carmel no problem. It's a fun and scenic flight.

    Being a pilot is a lot like golf. I't s lifestyle sport. You have to do it a lot to be good at it. You can't just fly a few times a year. You'd be out of currency and the rental company won't let you take the plane.
     
  25. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    That's not totally true. My club, which is a glorified rental company, will let you take planes on trips with no return time requirements. You pay two hours flight time per day away though. Most rental places I know of have the same or a similar deal.

    That said, I agree, taking the plane for more than a week or two, though, may be frowned upon.


    Mark
     

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