Aborted landing question

Yes. If you're going to go-around, then you need to clean up the airplane (flaps and landing gear) to climb back to pattern altitude or hold altitude. Landing configuration is high drag and you don't want that when you're climbing.

 

I work ATC at YYZ...I remember exactly that flight. We get about 5 instances/day of aircraft missing the exit on landing or slow to roll on takeoff...so the arrival gets to pay the price. Today, for instance, I overshot 3 aircraft because of exactly that type of situation. It's nuts--we ask everyone to slow their final approach to minimums, then accelerate just before touchdown and exit as quickly as possible.

It gets annoying, but YYZ was never designed to handle the volume we have now. I think we had 450k movements last year or thereabouts, apparently no. 16 in the world.

 

Small world...

 

That happened once to me on a night landing at ATL. Considering how busy that airport is, I'm amazed that it hasn't happened to me more often. The relatively new fifth runway has undoubtedly helped.

 

Go around.

Select/set go around power.
Raise flaps to 20 (normally 25 or 30).
Positive rate (this means positive rate of climb) gear up.

This is the procedure for 757/767, other aircraft are very similar.

As far as flying it like it's a fighter, and yes I have done that, it is no where close. The flight management systems shoot for a 2000 feet per minute climb which is good, if you are going around you want the airplane to accelerate and get away from the ground with out taking too long.

 

This happened to my wife and I coming in to SEA at night. The pilot cleaned up the airplane after applying power and started a climb. Shortly after, announced aircraft on the runway.

 

Yes; we never allow pilots to fly the published missed approach procedure (MAP). Usually, MAPs involve a flight path similar to a departure: insofar as climbs and turns are concerned, that aircraft will appear to be close to another departing aircraft. If the prior aircraft to depart had just taken off and you overshot short final, you can see the issue--you'd be following each other too closely (although in reality you'll never catch them). Ergo, we immediately turn the overshooting aircraft away from the runway.

That said, we are allowed to turn propeller aircraft and some jets away from the standard departure path immediately after departure to expedite their turn on course and launch more departures in a smaller time amount. Sometimes, we will turn them to a heading we would otherwise use for overshoots. A big part of our training involves recognising potential conflicts in these situations. We always have to have an 'out'--sometimes it necessitates a very sharp turn on the overshooting aircraft, with almost a 30 degree bank (compared to a 10-15 degree bank for a normal turn).

Lastly, if everything goes wrong (fire and other problems involved) and we have no 'out' heading, we will restrict the overshoot's altitude. I've seen this happen once, the overshoot basically overflew the runway at 200 ft and then turned.


To your second question: flying is summarised thus: aviate, navigate, communicate. 98% of overshoots are initiated by the controller. When it is pilot-initiated, they will tell us once they've begun climbing--but we should be able to see it by then! (through windows if it's a nice day, on radar if not)

 

Agreed - would definitely be interested in a thread on the daily life of ATC - how you got into it, what training is like, how long it takes to get up to speed, the daily frustrations/crises that we don't even know we experience as passengers. In your copious spare time, of course!

 

I had two back to back aborted landings at DCA recently. I assumed the young pilot and high winds were the culprit.

 

Tell you what--I've got my final exams for my last position qualification next week (we have several positions, and this one is the last that I can't work without supervision). If it all goes well, I'll do it.

I appreciate the interest!


@355dreamer: yes, high winds often make for unstable approaches, or ,worse yet, wind shear. Any significant shear is an automatic go-around, irrespective of pilot ability.

 

I just had a go around in Reagan last Sunday. We were coming in hot!

 

Very small world. Youve probably my flights in/out more than i would admit to. Departing today westjet 3604 and return is westjet 3609 on wednesday evening.

 

@Tamas: Yup, I usually recognise your flight pics I came on shift 20 minutes after you left today. I'll likely be in position Wednesday night when you come in.

@Fave: Many thanks. Pushing Tin is actually quite real for the area control aspect--it was in fact filmed at the YYZ Area Control Centre! You can see a few of my colleagues in those scenes.

 

Correct. The centre here at YYZ is responsible for all the airspace over Ontario (more or less). They have several sectors, each of which is responsible for a certain bit--the main ones are Terminal, which encompasses Departure and Arrival (done to about 30 miles of YYZ, from our zone to about 8000' altitude), Airports (all the smaller airports around YYZ), Enroute (basically what the name suggests, they control transiting aircraft at higher altitudes and are further divided geographically), Approach.

 

9 times out of ten, I can spot a go around before controller intervention. Most of the time its the AC on the runway missing a turn off. In those cases we just give each other some sort of..'this aint gonna work' and add another 5-10 kts to approach speed. Mind you, this scenario is happening about 1 miles out. Usually they separate us around 5 miles en-trail.

If I notice the buffer hitting the 4 mile mark on approach ill slow down a little and ask the tower hows the spacing look.

 

Ah, so you're one of those who speed up! I've given landing clearances at 0.1 miles, but I'll try to prep the crews for what's happening. It'***** or miss when I tell them it'll be close and give MA instructions, some slow and some speed up.

We usually (90%) make a 4 mile hole work (heavies and idiots notwithstanding). But as you say, when it isn't going to work, there's usually a pretty clear event that causes the overshoot.

 

Good luck! Look forward to reading!

 

If you are interested in what happens on the ground, take a listen to Kennedy Steve. (JFK)
He's been at it for over 25 years.
Not only is he good, he is quite funny at times.
He has it out for the Tug drivers...
Here are some videos of him (82 to be exact).
Mostly ground but he handles departures as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0AYKoRNUSY&list=PL_ei74pHoe4qfmuVrmQYP1LLJL25paqnr