One down....One to go.

For the cost, this is what it looks like to hang a '69 Daytona Coupe on the side of your airplane. Or a really nice BB512 AND a 246.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Yes, '85 SII. Flew her for Enron Energy for 5 years. Then went with her out of the Enron Bankruptcy to the new owners. In '06 they got a Falcon 900EX and made me a deal on this plane I could not refuse. Have been flying her for 20 years this month. She may be going on 32 years old, but she flys and looks like new. Nothing ever spared or deferred maintenance wise. Probably the only plane I would trade for would be an Encore. But, I would have to think long and hard about it. Very well equipped. GTN750/650. Avidine 500. XM, NEXRAD, and old Dopplar, ADS-B in and out. All Western Hemisphere Geo Synched Charts, WAAS, 796 Garmin, and on and on. As far as situational awareness, she is like a tree full of Owls.

 

Ha! I'd love to meet your Broker! I have a little over 14K total with 7500 jet. All in Citations and Pay more for Insurance. Though I have 1 + 9 and 20 million liability. Also Mexican, Canadian, and War Insurance. Maybe for a straight JT15D-4 you could possibly do it for 350 a side. But, ad labor, all new perry seals, taxes, and all the other **** they find and break during the install, it all adds up. Unfortunately, the SII has the JT15D-4B which is specific only to the SII. It was not used on any other airplane. They only built 151 SII's so the engines are very rare and hard to find. It took me over a year to find this engine. The rotables in my engines will not make it to another overhaul so they would be horrifically expensive to rebuild. With all the new crap they had to put on, labor, engine cost, taxes, CessCom phases that needed to be done, and other, "while we got it all apart", stuff, it is approaching 600k very quickly. And, I still have to do the other side.

 

HA! Use to fly a Bravo for a rich guy out of KSBA. Worse Citation ever built. I have flown all of the 500, 510, 550, and 560 models. The Bravo was AOG on every flight, and was the only Citation I could never make friends with. The owner was asked to attend a seminar and tell others what he thought of his new airplane. They were sorry they asked him because he told how untrustworthy the plane was and that he would not fly his family in it. He sold it and bought a Falcon 10. Though he is now back with Cessna in a 510 Mustang and has a CJ4 on order.

 

Looks like the difference is in the hull value and liability. I have 1.3 hull and 20 mil CSL. Lou, do not get a 551. If you do, you will not need a waiver, only whatever your insurance requires for recurrent. The bad thing is, if you fly it as a 551, you will be limited to 12,500 MTOW. Get a 550 and a waiver. I found this out the hard way when I converted my SII to an S551. Luckily, I found out this information before I registered it as such. If you choose a 550, get a later one as they had heavier MTOWs.

 

I do not think this is at all typical for the Bravos. It was an early Bravo that we actually watched built from scratch in Wichita. Literally from a roll of aluminum to a completed airplane. I think it was just a Lemon. I'm positive there are many happy Bravo owners. I would love to have the Bravo's PW30's on my SII.

 

That is the absolute truth. Especially with older aircraft and engines. More so in my case with the -4B's. Both of my engines have in excess of 14 thousand hours on the cores and 11 thousand + cycles. So, even if I had decided to overhaul my engines, Most of my rotables would not of had enough cycles left to make it to the the next overhaul. This would make the investment pointless. Not that the investment is pointless anyway on a 32 year old airplane. I could easily buy a newer Citation V but then I end up with an unknown used airplane with unknown problems. I know my airplane and she has no quirks. Everything, and I mean everything, on her works, down to the last tiny lightbulb. Anything that goes wrong is immediately remedied. She enjoys a good reputation for this around the community and if needed I could sell her in a heartbeat. I have numerous standing cash offers that I could exercise at any given moment. And though it really hurts, that is one of the many incentives to take the best care possible of her. This is why I just have my little 308 and not my dream BB512. There are so many hidden variables in an overhaul, good blades, bad blades, DAF or non DAF overhaul, it makes you very dizzy. Plus trying to get all the old crap married to the new crap. Kinda' like on a car. If you install a new clutch, you also better install a new pressure plate and throw out bearing to, or else. One thing in my case, after the engine was all mounted and run, the new engine's higher pressure output was causing the old Bleed Air Valve, (an airframe component), to stay stuck open. Another $8500 thank you very much. It just goes on and on.

 

Just another example of all the "Other Cost" of installing new engines. I know there is no crying allowed in aviation, but this stuff is very frustrating and expensive. The left hand indications are the brand spankin' a$$ new engine. Why is it running hotter and using more fuel than my #2 engine that has 3490 hours on it?! Is it an air leak? Is it an indication problem? Hell, who knows. All I know is that it is more fuel to fly it back to the maintenance facility, de-cowl everything, bend over and blow more cash out my a$$ and maybe, just maybe, get it fixed. Geeze.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

If you operate a 550 as a 551 you cannot take off at more than 12500lbs. I think, but am not sure, if you operate as a crew, you can fly the plane at it's 550 MTOW. Both pilots must have completed re-current training for the 550. There is no such thing as a 561 which is probably why you never heard of it. You must have a SPW to single pilot the 560. No such thing anymore as progressive checks for SPW's. It's one week of training and then a full on ATP oral and ATP check ride. And, you cannot take the check ride with the instructor that gave you your training. As far as passing the check rides, I have had to take an ATP check ride every year for the past 30 years. At Enron, we had to take two per year. If I don't pass one one, I probably should not be flying. I have carried a SPW for the 500, 550, S550, and 560 since 2002. It is not hard, it's just a PITA.

 

You are correct. After landing, I could hear a leak even with my A20 Bose's on. We de-cowled it and found a massive Bleed Air leak. The perry seals were completely blown out. Why they did not replace the seals when hanging a new engine, God only knows. Was sure that was the problem. Taxied out for take off and decided to do a static take off. Brought the engines up to take off power and the number one climbed right up to the yellow while the number 2 stayed well within the green. Taxied back and that is where we stand now. As far as synching the engine perfectly, that is like mastering the game of golf. A Citation's throttles are more sensitive than a bad tooth. The engine synch knob is just there to fill in a space. It can take flying across three states before the throttles synch. Then as soon as you got it , it slips off a percent or two. I actually have a picture with everything perfect that was taken literally a second before the one I posted, but in an instant they were split. They did find that my Bleed Air valve was sticking open and are replacing it with a new one. So we will see. It is just frustrating paying 400K+ for a new engine that runs hotter and uses more fuel than my number 2 that gas 3490 hours on it. I know the new engine is dead nuts good as it passed all of it's floor power runs with flying colors. There is a "bounce" in the number 1 ITT gauge that was never there before. The gauge has been sent out for inspection. Cessna has no inspection parameters in the book as far as inspecting the ITT system other than, "Check all the connectors." Thank you though. I appreciate the tips and thoughts and will certainly incorporate them into our trouble shooting.

 

Please don't let my whining discourage you from the SII. I love my airplane. It is just the frustration of finding anything to do with the -4B's. They are very stout engines and are the only ones ever built to run at 106%. Even the -5s run at 104%. The 4B's are so rare in fact, that Pratt & Whitney are converting -4's and -4D's into 4B's and even changing the Data Plates to read as -4B's. The problem I bring unto myself as I only want original -4B's. So just stop reading my crybaby thread and get your SII. In the whole Cessna 500 line up, there is not a better flying airplane. About three years ago, I was literally seconds away from pulling the trigger on an Encore. But, in the end, I just could not do it. Not because of price, I was just worried that I would not be able to fly it like the SII. I go in and out of 2600ft fields. High Sierra Airports. She has been from Pt. Barro, AK to Buenas Aires, Argentina. San Diego to Nova Scotia. And, across the Atlantic and back three times. She has never been AOG and has had 100% dispatch reliability for the past 20 years. This is unheard of for a jet. So, the frustration I am going through now, in reality, is small potatoes for a plane that has been so good and loyal to me.