MiG 29 for sale in the U.S. | FerrariChat

MiG 29 for sale in the U.S.

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by toggie, Oct 20, 2016.

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  1. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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  2. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Ron- Buy it and rent yourself out for Red Flag as long as they throw in the JP-8. The Germans participated in Red Flag with Mig-29s they inherited when the Iron Curtain fell. Not sure if they still fly them or not.
     
  3. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Soooo....What's the hourly burn on one of those? $15-20k/hour (fuel and maintenance)? More?



    Mark
     
  4. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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    The other problem is it is WAY above my flying skills level of a Cessna 182 VFR pilot. :)
     
  5. Ryan S.

    Ryan S. Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Always thought that was a good looking plane!
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Pretty and it will turn with an F-16. Miserably short range, though.
     
  7. randkin

    randkin Formula 3
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    Yea and parts could be an issue too? I saw one up in Camarillo, CA a while back but if I recall it had ugly camo paint job and not as pretty as this one.
     
  8. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    Terry,

    Germany inherited 24 MiGs 29 - almost brand new then - from Eastern Germany with the reunification. The "Luftwaffe" pilots loved the beast because they said that in a dogfight, there was nothing to beat it, no other airplane to turn tighter etc...BUT it was basically useless as an interceptor because it gulped fuel at a prodigious rate, so its range was laughable.
    One was lost, one is kept in a museum, the last 22 were sold for a symbolic sum to Poland in 2003 when the "Eurofighter" entered service.
    So it's already almost fifteen years that they left service with Germany.

    Rgds
     
  9. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    Even tighter and faster, if reports from Germany and the german Luftwaffe pilots are to be believed (28° per sec vs 26° per sec). It was well known in Europe at the time that when the Swiss tried to dogfight the german MiG 29s with their F-18, they came back very impressed (and beaten). But, as you said, simply no range.

    Rgds
     
  10. airborne

    airborne Karting

    Feb 19, 2013
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    Save up for a Su-27
    Much more impressive!
     
  11. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    #11 nerofer, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
    Saw them in the flesh at the Paris airshow when they came for the first time, 1989 I think it was; pilots were playing it "Top Gun" style. But it is a BIG aeroplane...
    That's said, should you ever got the chance to see one flown by Anatoly Kvotchur...

    Rgds
     
  12. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I know they perform, but it looks like it's made of balsa wood and scotch tape...are they robust?
     
  13. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    My guess is that you have never seen one from very near, no? They are built like tractors...or a flying tank. Robust they are, that's for sure...

    Rgds
     
  14. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    No, it's not as if these come rolling down the block often here in the US! :)

    Of course my information is biased and comes out of the Cold War 80's era, I was always under the impression that MiGs were garbage (the MiG 25 Foxbat comes to mind). History has shown that wasn't entirely true - e.g., the use of vacuum tubes was smart and cheap (depending on your viewpoint), but still not exactly a Lexus.

    The counter point? F-35...not exactly a picture of quality.

    FWIW.
     
  15. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    Well, you're bit harsh on the F-35, 'cos these programs are so big and complex today that it would be a surprise if they went along just fine, don't you think?

    The MiGs and Sukhoïs were the major attraction here in Europe once the iron curtain fell, for us aviation fans...
    Remember we grew under the threat of their tanks, aeroplanes, etc here...as a kid at school, I had a teacher in modern history who began most of his lessons by showing you a map of Europe, pointing out to the tip of Czecholsovakia and saying: "guys, there are only four hundred miles between here and the easternmost part of France; should the Russians decide to do so, they could be here in less than a night!".
    So yes, when the curtain fell (actually just before, at le Bourget salon in 1989) we rushed to see these at close quarters.
    They were/are an interesting mix between brute force and strenghth on one hand, and sophistication on the other. They usually have to cope with harsher conditions as far as landing strips, etc...so yes, solid they are!
    And they could perform, too; each time there was a meeting with one of those in the nineties, preferably with former eastern bloc pilots (less respectful of the safety limits and usually good showmen), off we went.
    But the truth is that, as for most soviet material, there was a gradation between the "upper standard" for the Soviet Air Force, and those given to the rest of the Eastern Bloc. Those for the VVS (Soviet fighter arm) were the best performers.

    By the way, the one of the add in the original post is (of course) a twin seater, so a training variant, as the "UB" in the designator is saying ("Uchebnoy Boyevoï" meaning more or less: "combat trainer").

    Rgds
     
  16. LMPDesigner

    LMPDesigner F1 Rookie
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    Yea, and with the helmet mounted sight when matched with the Vympel R73 close range missile the Mig 29 could and did outfight just about any western power fighter in mock combat.

    Have a buddy who was involved in the US Airforce advisary evaluation program. It took a while for him to come out with this-and he was always very annoyed by it but he said that in their mock combat they never won one 1-1 close range dog fight when going against the West German Mig 29 fighters. Never won once...
     
  17. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    That's what was said here at the time, before they were sold to Poland in the summer of 2003 (for one - ONE - euro each...).
    Truth is however that at long range engagements, they didn't fare so well...but in close combat and dogfight, and when flown by Luftwaffe pilots, they had a reputation to be "the ultimate" opponent.

    Rgds
     
  18. njcycleguy

    njcycleguy Formula Junior
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    Really cool.

    Excuse my aviation ignorance, but if one had the means and desire, could a civilian actually register and fly the thing in the US?
     
  19. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You need buckets of money to pay for fuel, parts, and insurance. I remember reading an intel bulletin which contained a crappy b/w photo of the Mig-29 - around 1984. With that kind of money I would pass on the station wagon. Wait for the single seat.
     
  20. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
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    Yes
     
  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Big advantages for the Mig-29 when in service with the Luftwagge were the helmet mounted sight, AA-11 (R-73) Archer missile, and the IRST system. The Archer could attack targets 45 degrees off boresight, which was a huge advantage in a close-on fight. Combine that with phenomenal turn rate and excellent control feel, and the Mig-29 was the Spitfire of the 80s and 90s. No legs, but great if you were defending your own airfield and nobody had already killed you with a BVR missile.
     
  22. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

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    That would be so much fun. You would have to import an ex soviet mechanic with experience and then try to find spares. Way beyond a millionaire game....more like billionaire game.
     
  23. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #23 Gatorrari, Oct 22, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. RacerX_GTO

    RacerX_GTO F1 World Champ
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    At the time, the Archer system was wicked. Amazing how the tech concept hasn't changed all that much, but the capability expansion is just insane. I spoke with an Aggressor Sq.(VFC-13) pilot during an airshow next to his F-16, he said the Superhornet's JHMCS is just simply not fair.
     
  25. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Not really. There's a small, but very competent, community of mechanics across the country who all have contacts in the old soviet countries who source parts. Plus, these planes usually are shipped over with a spares package, and a good portion of the parts that cannot be sourced will be replaced with American stuff. One of the top guys is at Reno Steed; his shop is like a museum.

    As with all of aviation, though, there are ****ty mechanics who claim to be experts as well that have to be avoided.




    Mark
     

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