One for the aircraft designers.. | FerrariChat

One for the aircraft designers..

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by nzporsche944s2, Mar 9, 2017.

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  1. nzporsche944s2

    Jul 12, 2012
    14
    Everytime I'm watching planes land there is that puff of tyre smoke and occasionally you can hear the chirp-chirp as the tyres hit the runway and I always think to myself what a tremendous waste of rubber....

    The black marks on every runway are just wasted rubber.

    Why has no-one thought of putting vanes either on the wheel hub or the tyre itself to get the wheel rotating at a speed that more closely matches the ground speed to prevent that burnoff?

    It can't be for reasons of drag because by that point the undercarriage is already down.

    Are the tyres not actually that expensive (relatively speaking)?

    What is the service life of a typical Boeing's (737 / 767 / 747 / 777) tyres for example?
     
  2. alexm

    alexm F1 Veteran

    Sep 6, 2004
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    I'll bite.. I'm guessing for simplicity.. less weight, less stuff to go wrong (motors, wiring, when deployed and by what, and if it fails will it do something bad) and cost of rubber vs all that consideration.

    Planes have been brought down by many things over the years.. even some wiring in the entertainment system..
     
  3. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Scott
    Short answer: If it was cost-effective airlines would do it. It isn't.

    There are so many threads about this on the internet, with a lot of them getting to why this isn't done.
     
  4. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2003
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    It's all been tried in the past and it isn't cost effective, weight smart, etc.
     
  5. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    Apr 21, 2003
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    Probably would have better luck getting aircraft to take off and land from a giant treadmill.
     
  6. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Some WWII bombers (some B-17's, I think), had motors that spun the wheels prior to landing. Or maybe Wellingtons...

    Rubber was scarce during the war.

    Deemed a waste and not continued.

    Anyway, it's a lot less wear than a trip to the 7-11 by the typical mulleted Mustang driver. :)
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    The big problem is when they do not stop spinning once you take off, at least in some aircraft. Makes a really loud noise when they come up against the snubbers.
     
  8. Ryan S.

    Ryan S. Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 20, 2004
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    lol
     
  9. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

    May 31, 2003
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    Rob Guess
    Don't give Airbus any ideas........
     
  10. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
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    Indianapolis
    I guess you could do something like that and it would help, but aircraft tires are pretty soft, and they still wear pretty fast even if you did address the landing issue..

    I was always taught to apply the brakes once in the air and just before I actuated the landing gear to stop the mains from turning before retraction.... The idea being that you didn't want the wheels spinning when they went into the wells.. You could stop the wheels with the brakes on retraction and that would still work, you'd just have to hold the brakes until retraction was complete.
     
  11. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
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    No treadmill needed and wheel rotators not needed either. No wear on these tires...
    http://youtu.be/82ixxBOxZjE
     
  12. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 16, 2012
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    Checklist for my old Mooney included touch brakes prior to retracting gear. No snubber in the wheel well so it really didn't matter, but simple procedure to implement in a coordinated cockpit environment.
     
  13. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I was always amazed at the main gear tires of the B-24 on landing. The strut jerked back about 6 to 8 inches on impact and the tires grew in height for a couple of inches. Lots of smoke and noise that was easy to hear from an open waist position.
     
  14. Hammerhead

    Hammerhead Rookie

    Mar 11, 2015
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    I was told a long time ago in A&P school you don't want them spinning in flight due to the gyroscopic effect adversely affecting the airplane.
     
  15. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    They do have that, usually as a mod. You want it for gravel runways. If the wheel is already spinning, it won't throw up as much gravel against the airframe. I believe the gravel runway mod for Learjets had it for the nosewheel.

    On pavement, I don't think it makes that much of a difference.
     
  16. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
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    #16 teak360, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Now that's a viable reason I hadn't thought of. Getting all the mains spinning on a large plane would have an effect.


    Here's a Citation gravel runway kit.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    The Ruskies just use fenders.
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Brian- They look like mudguards on some of the Russian aircraft.
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I have seen a few. I was told at some point they design aircraft for lesser quality airfields and debris exposure. As I recall a few had air inlets ducted to over the wings for taxiing to avoid FOD.
     
  20. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    FRANCE
    The MiG-29 in its original version, notably...
    Yes, they do have to take care of debris exposure, some of their aerodromes being in very remote places; they also have a water/snow/mud problem with the violent snow melting during the infamous "raspoutitsa", which is the week or ten days during which almost everything thaw in one go in Russia, which means mud, etc, almost everywhere, including on tarmacs...

    Rgds
     
  21. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I once saw an Alaska Airlines 737-200 Combi unloading at Sea-Tac airport. The passengers were deplaning from the aft side airstair while a forklift was removing cargo through the forward side cargo door. You could not help seeing a very large mudguard attached to the nose landing gear.
     
  22. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Was it because Alaska was a former russian territory?
    More seriously: yes I think that the main reason for the mudguards on russian/soviet airplanes is in fact snow / mud.

    Rgds
     

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