C919 - China's First Large Passenger Jet Takes Flight

Airbus recently broke a record selling 250 A320s to China that are finished in factories in China. Boeing broke that record by selling 300 737s, but also threw in the towel and will build a factory in China to finish 737s. Loss of Import/Export Bank financing had an impact on that decision. Those two are the main competitors for the C919.

 

I'd rather walk.

 

Here is how it works in China.

At first the government will make damn sure everything goes well as they dont want egg on their face.

Eventually, once enough successful flights happen and the world stops voicing concern, the government will stop paying close attention and the cost cutting will begin.

Thats when the potential for disaster occurs.

It'll take a decade or so before anyone will need to start worrying.

 

Honestly, you can't blame the Chinese at all. For sure they will need a lot of planes in the next 20 years. They might as well build them themselves.

I don't see them challenging Boeing or Airbus outside of Asia.

 

Thirty years ago Boeing had some Chinese engineers at Everett learning how to design airplanes. I met several of them and even had one of them to our house for dinner. I have never had full understanding of the purpose of exposing and handing out core values of our design/ build processes that kept us ahead of the game. The Japanese have been here for 40 years inhaling everything they can find. I'm not a politician or a strategic marketeer so I guess they know what they are doing...I hope.

 

The reason is quite clear: Do it or they take their business elsewhere. Money talks.

I still don't believe the Chinese are anymore a threat to the airplane building business as they are the car business. They sell a lot of Chinese cars in China and not anywhere else. The Russians had great aerospace technology and knowledge but could never sell passenger planes outside the Soviet Union.


Ford and GM build a ton of cars in China for the Chinese market. I see Boeing and Airbus doing the same but still making money from the Chinese market.

 

The only reason this was done is to reduce the amount of money they send to other countries by buying non-chinese made. Airbus and Boeing will have less sales in China for sure, but I doubt by a lot. The rest of the world market...not a chance. Airbus and Boeing all the way. That's like thinking Tupolev was a threat when it made commercial jetliners.

 

Different cultures have different outlooks on things. For the most part western culture wants to have some pride in their work product. Not a hard and fast rule but in a general sense it is true. There is no limit to which the Chinese will go to cut costs.....none. They are capable of making a pretty good product, but they have no limit to which they will not go in the other direction. NONE. And they have proven time and again that human cost is of no consequence.

Sorry, can't go there. Have no use for them.

Had friends as POW's in Japan. Have no use for them either.

 

Any evidence that this plane is a knock-off of a Boeing or Abus plane?

 

Do you think there is any chance it is not?

 

Looks just like a baby 787 lol...

 

I doubt we'll hear about any incidents/accidents while it's in testing either.

 

I 'believe' fuel, is the biggest expense for an airline. China will eventually offer an aircraft for export, which should sell for approximately 40% less than the competition.


It will not be as fuel efficient and have all of the latest avionics and features.

 

This plane has CFM-LEAP engines, which are fairly fuel-efficient.

There are orders for almost 100 planes... GE Capital (USA) is the only non-Chinese entity on the list.

 

yep, for all intent and purposes they are building Boeings.

 

Works for stealth aircraft, why not airliners?

 

The Russian airliners were held back by inefficient Russian engines poor Russian avionics and a design philosophy which required annual overhauls as opposed to time replacing parts. They never had a remotely competitive product.

The Chinese planes have the latest western engines and avionics and are built to operate as ours do. One inetresting point is a large componant of a plane is systems, ie emgines electronics and other bits, to the extent these come from the west there is a large western componanat. The Chinese are building an airframe. To really make inroads in the west they will also need product support.

However, Airbus was nobody in the 70s. They bet on fuel efficient big fan twin engine aircraft when boeing was still all about the 727 and 747. So give the chinese 30 years and they can potential be a serious competitor in the airframe buisness. Theyll need great saftey record, an ability to support product, an ability to make a standout product, and one that is fuel burn competitive for a competitive price or financing. Would you have thought 20 years ago the brazillians would be making great jetliners?

Who knows the Chinese could even decide to buy the bombardier Cs program.

It will take time, the 919 is the opening gambit. Yes there are cultural issues, however unilke cars aircraft are sold more on function, reliability, saftey, product support and economy rather than brand. I wouldn't count them out at all. The Chinese think in 100-1000 year timeframes. I dont think they are too bothered if it takes them 20-50 years to get there. More likley economic or political upheaval in china will delay or stop this.


As to why Boeing and Airbus are teaching them how to make planes. Well they want to sell planes now, and thats the price. I remember MD assembling planes there in the late 80's, built the plant, showed them how to do it. Boeing started making landing gear doors and other componants there around the same time. Its starts small and keeps growing.

In fact in the late 70s the chinese built two 707 knockoffs just to see, these planes still used the 707 engines.

I would really worry one day when the Chinese start building competitive turbofans and avionics.

Ill end on a positive note. We are all about innovation, witness the geared turbofans. If and when the time comes maybe we'll see some new aircraft shapes from boeing which will be the next leap forwards. Although with a company housed in Chicago now run by MBA's dont hold your breath.

 

I'm not flying, driving, or boating on anything Chinese

 

I notice you didn't say motorboating

 

Boeing and Comac just had a ground breaking on a 737 completion center in China.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-comac-break-ground-on-737-completion-plant-437148/

Make it easy for them to reverse engineer your product. Give them a plant to do it in..

 

How about an African helicopter?

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bPX8ycj2PU[/ame]