So Why is the Boxer 2xTR (price)?

3-4 years ago both cars were about the same value or at least very close. I think it's that demand over the supply in the works again...

 

Some quick reasons -- I'm sure there are others:

1. The 512TR that came after the TR is a better car, equally driver-friendly - values of those are holding up well. (I know, because I'm watching those...) In the same way 328 prices are a kind of ceiling on the steel 308s, the 512TR is probably always going to be viewed as the more bulletproof version of the TR.
2. TR styling is widely viewed as dated. (I like them, but then I still watch Miami Vice reruns, so I guess it depends on your age...)
3. 7,000+ TRs built makes it pretty common.
4. Boxer/308/328 were the last of the old school, hand-assembled Ferraris, and the Boxer had individually fabricated panels, making it a link to the coach-built era.
5. 328 styling is basically a carry-over from the 246 and 308, and is almost universally admired.
6. 328 maintenance is "cheap" by Ferrari standards. (It's also easy to drive and agile, although the TR has more straight line power.)
7. The TR's user-friendliness advantage over the Boxer is less important in a collector-type car. Basically no one drives these every day, so the ergonomics and driveability merits aren't as important they would be in "normal" cars.

Number of cylinders isn't much of a guide to value. The 246 GTS is pushing $200K right now (6-cyl), and that was contemporary to the Boxer.

OTOH, you could argue that a $50K TR is a lot of car for the money.

 

I think the boxer is a truly beautiful car - can't get enough of the front lights and the clean shape. Saw one being repainted and gone over with a fine tooth comb at Motorcars in Missouri when I picked up my car. Stunning. Always had a poster of it on my wall. Next to the countach, TR and 308 and Farrah...

I like the TR so much more simply because there is absolutely nothing like it on the road and also that vice factor. 348's are similar because of their styling cues and are nice but don't have the presence of the TR. I have a 328 which I would argue has very similar lines of the boxer minus the 12 cyl. Other things I know but in general, the same pen...

I will have to look for a TR or 512 or M in my future to go along with the 328. I'm fine with the lower prices since I don't own one yet. Make mine Argento to match my 328. I think the well kept TR's will start to go up again. Because there are lots of "picky" buyers like me that will be willing to pay the right dollar for the right car. The boxer and a 328 combo isn't one I hear a lot of on this site. Do you guys share my thoughts on the similar family lines?

Always enjoy the posts across the board.

Robb

 

BB is the collector car du jour. It is a very good car and is not undeserving but it is the current rung up the ladder for cars that have not gone up in price so it did. It relative rareity to the TR helped too. The TR got an undeserved reputation for maint. costs. I say undeserved because it was largely a self fulfilling prophecy. Lots of people, many uninformed said they were expensive to keep running and the dealers were more than happy to help fulfill the fantasy. People were getting bent over daily and still are. They got a reputation for hurting the gearboxes, something the BB's with a more fragile gearbox was more prone to.



328 v TR is easy. 328 is a great and simple car. Has had that reputation since 86. In the dealer we thought that if Ferrari kept building cars like this we would all be out of a job. I knew of a Boeing B29 for sale a few years ago. It was going for about the sales tax on a P51. Why? Cost 4 times as much to operate. Similar situation with the TR v 328.

TR is a great car and its time will come but not for some time. People in the market though are starting to realize just how few really good ones are out there. They are getting very hard to find.

 

+1

I'd also add, from a subjective standpoint as someone that grew up in the 80's I've admired the TR, because they are user friendly, have great power, and certainly made a statement in its day (causing others to copy the strakes, think Anniversary Countach, Gemballa and other custom Porsches, and even the 348). But to be honest, I always thought the 512BBi was a prettier car.

Truthfully when the 512s were new they were not highly regarded, I remember after reading an old edition of Car & Driver from the early 1980s, in an article titled "Anharbor Hosts a Boxer," it was clear they didn't really like the car. They complained that it was like driving an extra wide Lotus Esprit. Still, to me it was one of the last truly beautiful Ferraris, from a time before drag coefficient largely determined the shapes of cars.

The user friendly issue is a non-issue for collectors. Dream cars do not have to be practical and userfriendly, its not bad if they are, but most importantly they appeal to that emotional side of us that throws practicality out the window. I know when I was growing up the things that mattered to me and my friends were 0-60, top speed, and looks. None of us ever discussed not which had a more efficient a/c unit, lighter clutch, or cargo space...but those are things that as we get older we come to appreciate.

In time TR values may come up when the generation below us gets a bit older and has more disposeable income, as they don't know much about Boxers and really grew up with TRs/ 512TRs, 550s etc.

Best regards,
Dino

 

So far.

In 1975 we thought the Daytona was going to be the last of its kind too.

 

all of the above.
the supply of bb and bbi's does not exceed 2000 cars, and probably a lot less than that in reality. the first gen tr was made 5000 times, the 512tr 2200 times, and the m about 500 times. so of all those, the first gen tr is the most oversupplied and will lag behind all the others. then there are all the other subjective issues.

 

Because its twice the car! Sorry I couldnt resist lol. keep smiling im just stirring the pot a bit

 

What I want to know is why 512BB's are less than half $ of a Daytona.
There is the mystery.

 

The TR is like a fat arsed big titted girl. Makes sense as it was designed for the US market where the former is regarded as the height of attractveness. A Tr is a disjointed shape, like a C5 vette.

A boxer has harmony of line and a lithe shape, less user freindly a far more enduring experince if you can deal with the hassle. The Italians either get design totaly right or very wrong.

That being said a testarossa will be appreciated in future years as it is truly a shocker and exocative of the 80's an eraof mostly shockin art and bad music. The 80's though were also an era o0f rebrith of western society, ferrari which had been on the decline was back and the Tr symbolises the rebirth.

The Boxer by contrast can be seen as the last great gasp of a truly iconic line of cars. The 70's appeared to be the death knell of contemporary western civilization and of good cars of any type, the boxer with the countach bucked this trend and continued in glorious irrelevnce, a finger to frugal sensibility and negative outlook. They were also the last supercars cars made with a shape and form for style with little or no compromise, a purity of line impossible today.

A TR has a foot in the past and future, it is classic in some ways yet still soft and usable. Like a pink caddy from the 50's it will occupy a collectable place all to itself. It is shock art , not timless design. A fat assed big titted car, appealing for an hour of fun late at night after a few too many beers(hey we have all done it, or maybe not hence the appeaL OF THE tr), not really a fine wine to be savored and appreciated(LIKE A GOOD LOVER AND WIFE). The TR is not exactly a swim on a crystal mountain lake, more like a 4 in the morning soft light romp and let me get home before the sun comes up and I have to confront my sins type of car. The Boxer is that classy long term lover freind and red head wife. High maintanace but an enduring ride even as the years go by. A Tr is many things but not that. A Nissan GTR is the modern TR. nuff said. thanks for reading this rant BYE.

 

Not a bad post. The only way I can describe my TR is an angry b*tch that demands your full attention when behind the wheel. She is certainly not the lover and wife.

Great post

Robbie

 

Now THAT sir is the truth! A lot said in few words.

 

i will also add that the 512tr is the most fun car i have to actually drive fast and furious. the bbi is fun up to about 100mph, after that it is downright scary. whereas the 512tr is rock solid up to double that. but both have their place in my stable, and i am happy the bbi is now gaining in value.

 

Bastage!!! I had just given up on holding that one back since the thread appeared, and was going to pull the pin and toss it into the room. Still every bit true, though.

 

The difference is a combination of numbers/years of production and maintenance cost. The everyday guy does not really see much differences between early testarossas, 512, TR, M etc.... and the M is not really that old. So are they really clasics yet ... and there is a fear of being raped by the cost and issues .... and remember capitalism rules! supply and demand is a wonderful thing.

 

So it seems TR owners could argue that TRs should be priced in line with Boxers, Boxer owners want Daytona bucks, and I suppose Daytona guys want 275 GTB money. Seems like the answer is generally, values are a right of passage. Each car went/is going through its unappreciated phase after it was hyped when new, and later settled into its historical place.

I'm pretty simple, so simple explanations appeal to me!

Great topic, Jay. Some interesting posts and perspectives.

Curious to here comments from owners who have both.

 

"The TR is not an enduring ride"? I respectfully disagree my friend, it is enduring (i.e., lasting/durable) and more! That is a myth of the TR that I have noticed on FChat. Ask those in the know, the TR is an exremely durable car when properly cared for like any vehicle. Let it go, yes, it will not be enduring, but that is true with "any vehicle". In addition, the TR not a lasting vehicle, OK you can wake up toto because you are no longer in Kansas.

 

because the 328 is a true timeless beauty. it cannot be denied that the 328 is one of the sexiest ferraris ever.

 

Dear Ferraristi,

....a good reason to " just say no to drugs"

Honestly, I guess It's really an age thing. For me, there is no other Ferrari. I grew up ( I know, you've heard it a thousand times ) in the "extroverted", "greed is good" 80's. What Ferrari is as "over the top" as the times it was conceived. With Miami Vice, palm trees, white linen suits and the birth of house music ( grandfather of techno ), adding a Testarossa to the mix....great times to grow up in!

While I do like the classic lines of a boxer, it really does absolutely nothing for me. The Testarossa on the other hand, is so wide and crazy looking, you have to say....holy crap! No, not like a "fat arsed, big titted" girl but a tall thin super model with popping nipples in a super short liquid metal dress.

Open the engine cover, peak up her dress.....whow! ........that's the only thing that comes to mind. Don't even ask about the strakes!

I look at all other Ferraris and while I can say nice.....it ain't no Testarossa. The only car that is more over the top is my Lamborghini Diablo VT Roadster....now that's some bling! Again, it's all when you grew up. I look at the 360/430 and they are as fat as a Mercedes S class....just a ungainly as well ( polite way of saying UGLY)

Now, I know some of the older slower folks on the board prefer their boxers and I'm sure when Miami Vice came out, y'all were saying.....what's with a cop in a white suit...I don't get it?

If I didn't drive a Testarossa, I would just buy another Diablo.....but what's the point of two of the same car. I love blonde's, but why have two....no, wait, bad analogy, I'll take the two blondes.....but I still want the Testarossa because it's the only car that matches!

So, please keep your wife and have a moonlit swim....

I'm datin' a porn star and we're going dancing to some cool techno trance!

....and I don't care where I wake up in the mornin'


Shamile

Freeze...Miami Vice !

 

+1

Robb