86 Testarossa intermittent starting issue, PLEASE HELP!

I suspect that you have a china syndrome fuse box. Do a search on "china syndrome" and "white connectors" then go look at your fuse box and compare.

After that there are many other things to check but the fuse box is a VERY good place to start.

Report back.....

HTH

P

 

Please stop doing that! If it is a US version TR, most likely you have a bad/intermittent protection relay (or a bad/intermittent connection), and you are not getting +12V power to run the KE-Jet injection system (and the system goes "lean" -- so by cranking it over so many times, and waiting the ~5 minutes between cranking to let the TTS cool off, the Cold Start Injector is puddling liquid fuel in the intake plenum and, eventually, increases the overall richness enough to get it going). Do a search on "TR red wire protection relay", and read those ~15 threads (and threads that they might reference). If you need more help (or have a non-US TR) or confirm that you do have +12V on the red wire, but still have this runability problem, please give a shout back.

 

Also check that the vacuum hose is connected to the module direcly above the drivers side rear wheel houseing. I had inadvertantly knocked it off while under the hood. It ran very roughly for a couple minuits, and had decreased power, till I noticed the disconnected hose.

 

Thats the vacuum hose for the ignition ecu.. I would check the connections under the ignition coils - those plugs are problematic. Also check the plugs under the coolant tank.

R

 

Does it act like vapor lock? could be the fuel check valves.

 

This may be the thread, about a page down:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316566&highlight=TR+red+wire+protection+relay

 

Check those plugs under the 7-12 iginition coil. Unplug them and give them a cleaning.. Do not use any grease.. Those plugs are problematic and give symtoms like your having. Check your ignition wires going to the coils as well. Have you done any work lately on this car... Cleaning etc.. That ignition coil sends the signal to the tachometric relay..

R

 

I'm not going to believe you because the F113A family doesn't have the black triangular box nor a protection relay -- isn't it actually F113A040?

Assuming that you do have F113A040, not always having +12V on the GR (yellow/red) wire on terminal 30 is a fatal flaw (that will cause rough/lean running and very hard cold starting) and must be corrected. Have a look at the back of the starter solenoid -- the same large post that holds the +12V battery cable should also have a loop terminal mounted on it that has the small GR (yellow/red) wire. Sometimes this GR wire gets broken off the loop terminal. If that all seems OK, inspect the large round C12 connector on the black triangular box. The path of the GR (yellow/red) wire should go from that large post on the starter solenoid with the +12V battery cable -to- connector C12 -to- terminal 30 of the protection relay in the black triangular box -- i.e. terminal 30 of the protection relay (with the 10A fuse) MUST always be at +12V.

That's good, but don't worry about this area. Trouble here can cause a whole bank to shut down (like a dead fuel pump), but the engine would still run smoothly (but weakly) and not rough. It would also start OKish. This does not match your symptom.

The water thermoswitch is a single sensor on the Driver's side of the water "Y" fitting so I think that you are not measuring the right thing here:

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But since you are already inside the triangular black box, the "red wire" = terminal 87 on the protection relay so you can measure for the same thing there (but until you always get +12V on terminal 30 of the protection relay, doing this doesn't make sense).

Your (only) task for now is to always get +12V on the GR (yellow/red) wire on terminal 30 of the protection relay

 

You need to measure the voltage on terminal 30 when the current is not zero (i.e., with the 30-to-87 jumper in place -- but the engine need not be running). If you get +12V on terminal 30 without the jumper, but a low voltage on terminal 30 when the 30-to-87 jumper is in place, that indicates that you have a high resistance somewhere between the battery cable on the starter solenoid and the wire at terminal 30. Please remeasure as described (or confirm that you had +12V on terminal 30 when the jumper was in place, but still no joy).

 

Are you saying that all is OK, or now you have a different symptom, and the car starts OK (and runs smoothly) but only for a few seconds (with the jumper in place)?

If it doesn't clear itself up (running with the jumper), then you do need to confirm/deny if you have +12V at terminal 15 of the protection relay socket A) during cranking and B) during the brief running period. Of course, this makes no difference for the protection relay because the jumper simulates a closed protection relay, but the ZB (violet/black) wire at terminal 15 also runs the fuel pump relays, and it could be +12V during cranking (key Pos III) which pressurizes the fuel system and 0V during the brief running period (key released to Pos II) -- so the engine dies after a few seconds as the fuel pressure falls.

 

See my edited prior post -- now you need to confirm/deny if the tachometric relay (which feeds both the fuel pump relays and protection relay terminal 15) is working or not. The tachometric relay is behind the fuse-relay panel and you can do the same thing there -- i.e., use a jumper to connect terminal 30 to terminal 87 simulating a closed tachometric relay (and terminal 30 of the tachometric relay socket should always be +12V).

Also, you should check if you do, or don't, have spark on the 7/12 bank during cranking as no spark on the 7/12 bank will cause the same symptom -- tachometric relay works during starter motor cranking, but not when the key is released from crank (Pos III) to run (Pos II).

See this thread for TR tachometric relay information:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275332

 

Not sure exactly what you are saying here (and assume that we are at the protection relay) -- if you mean that the end of the jumper (plugged into terminal 30) reads 12V when not plugged into terminal 87, but falls to 0V when it is plugged in to terminal 87, this indicates you have a bad (but not totally open) connection somewhere between the +12V battery cable and the terminal 30 wire as I stated before (and seems to contradict your #16 post). The suspects would be the terminal crimps to the wires, the contacts in C12, the harness, etc..

By "rigg'in", do you mean that you used another (known good) wire to bring +12V from somewhere else directly to the protection relay terminal 87 wire?

 

Not yet sure that I really understand your description nor if you have an intermittent problem or a bad protection relay:

1. If the engine always runs well with a known good jumper between terminal 30-to-87 at the protection relay socket, and the terminal 15 wire in the protection relay socket is at +12V (meaning whatever the alternator is putting out so 14~15V is fine) when the engine is running; but the engine will not run with the protection relay in place = probably bad protection relay.

2. If the engine sometimes runs OK with the 30-to-87 jumper in place, and sometimes not OK = wiring Gremlin.

Give a shout if you need something else, and here's the protection relay info just to add it to this thread (although, IIRC, it's been superceded to Stribel 92861512402):
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