Starter circuit problems

I did (photo shows the completed splice at the w connector, the uncompleted splice at the y connector, and the female terminal not yet reinserted back into the y connector -- I prefer to not sever the original wire conductors so needed to remove the female terminals from their respective housings to get shrink tubing over the joints):

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Next time I'd do the same thing for the lower red wire in the w connector to the red wires in the y connector which handles the brake lights -- like the white wire, it's a high current signal that just (needlessly) passes onto and off of the fuse-relay panel.

 

Hi Steve,

My 512TR has an intermittent starting issue. Does it have the same issues as the Testarossa? I thought the 512TR had an upgraded relay board.

I have cleaned the contacts on the connector at the rear of the car, but still have the problem. When I have a no start situation, I measure only about 6.5V at the solenoid. I have rigged up a wire from the solenoid that I touch to the big wire on the starter when this happens. No problems with the starter itself, starts every time with this hot wire setup.

Is there a relay in the solenoid circuit? I have fixed some other issues due to bad relays. Reading the schematic in the work shop manual is beyond frustrating. I have a degree in electronic engineering and not being able to fix this is crazy. This should be duck soup, but with the terrible schematic and not knowing exactly where the components are is hampering my troubleshooting efforts.

How about the ignition key switch itself, is that a common problem?

 

Amen to that -- they took a real bad step backwards on the 512TR schematics in terms of readability, ease-of-use, and lost much of the good locational information contained in the earlier schematic formats.

I'm not as familiar with the 512TR, but would summarize it as better than the TR, but not always trouble-free just going by what's been reported/discussed here. Noted that they increased the gauge of the wires in the start food chain.

No, no relay involved in the "start command" food chain going to terminal 50 on the starter solenoid.

No, the 512TR ignition switch hasn't been identified as a known common troublemaker. I'd only replace it if the voltage measured +12V on the red wires in the J connector going to terminal 30 of the ignition switch, but measured much lower on the white wire in connector I coming from terminal 50 of the ignition switch (when making a start attempt, but the starter doesn't engage). The "start command" food chain is:

+12V out of the two large red wires on pins 9 & 10 of the J connector of the fuse-relay panel
to terminal 30 of the ignition switch
to terminal 50 of the ignition switch (when the key is in Pos III)
into the fuse-relay panel on the white wire on pin 1 of the I connector
out of the fuse-relay panel on the white wire on pin 1 of the F connector
to the engine rear connector (41019 on the schematic)
to terminal 50 on the starter solenoid

Since you already measured only 6.5V at the starter solenoid terminal 50 (when nothing happens during a start attempt), I'd suggest that you next measure at the J, I, and F connectors on the fuse-relay panel to home in on where the trouble lies (with everything plugged in -- you should be able to "back probe" to the metal terminal pieces). Good Hunting!

 

Thanks a bunch Steve!

Armed with this new knowledge I know I can fix the issue. I'll report my findings later when the issue is resolved.

Vince, please let us know what you find. I might be able to give you a few pointers also. If you need pictures of my hot wire kludge I can send them to you.

 

On the 512TR I saw often that the cause was that stupid little connector which commands the solenoid; simply replace it ! (Is that # 50 ?)

 

I have a similar/different problem. The ignition to solenoid circuit stayed hot even when the key returned to the #2 (run) position after turning it to the #3 (start) position, leaving the solenoid/starter engaged and frying same. The key/ignition switch feels fine, but I can't imagine anywhere else but the switch itself that could cause this. Is my assumption correct?

Images are of the fried starter and solenoid.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

It sounds vaguely familiar. My mechanic did have to swap out the ignition lock set which also came with the locks for the gas cap, and doors(which was never swapped since it was impossible to get to). I have two sets of keys now.

 

Time to install the GTO/F40 push button start you always wanted.

 

I've already ordered mine from Summit.
I got prices on the two remaining NOS ignition switches for a 512TR. I think it was about $4K from Ricambi and $2900 from Ferrari. Such a deal. I'll take the $12 push button please.

 

I love those prices. Please try any of the F part suppliers in the uk. I feel like the us distributors just buy from there then tack on a substantial profit.

 

So here's the bottom line: there IS a relay in the 512TR ignition circuit - it is the one on the upper row, far right as you look at the panel (driver's side, some would say).

I tried to trace the 512TR wiring schematic until I thought my head would explode.

On my initial diagnostic, with connectors in place and switch in #2 (run position), I got 5.6 volts at pin 1 on the "I" connector and 5.6 volts at pin 1 of the "F" connector and of course at terminal 50 at the solenoid. I tried replacing the relay - no change. So I figured I had a bad ignition switch (I found one at T Rutlands, used, for only $1800), and I prepared to wire a start button into the circuit. I removed the #1 pins from both connectors and for some reason decided to check the voltage again. It was ZERO in the wire coming from the ignition switch, exactly as it should be. My guess is that somewhere in the circuit board, 5.6 volts are bleeding into the "run" circuit, giving me the 5.6 reading when all connectors were in place. Hmmmm...Ferrari strikes again.
The fix was easy. I soldered up a jumper wire with 2 male ends to bridge the gap between the two white wires (pin 1, "I", pin 1, "F") and voila - all systems go. Many years ago I had installed a relay at the starter solenoid. This was left in place, so my custom circuit now conformed to the factory set up, and I had one less circuit going through my fuse box (already modified with the Dave Helms conversion - best money I ever spent).

So, my advice to those with 512TR start problems - check the voltage at the "I" connector, pin 1 with the connector removed from the circuit board and check that the "key" relay in the fuse box is working properly.

 

Was the white wire from pin 1 "I" and pin 1 "F" pulled out from their clip and joined together OR were they left on the clip and jumped clip to clip......Any chance you could put a photo up of your jumper solution. I'm trying to avoid the relay on the starter but I'm getting pretty closing to installing it.

 

Yes, I removed the pins intact from the connectors and fashioned a male-to-male jumper wire, so the circuit bypases the fuse box altogether. However, you do not want any excess voltage shooting through your ignition switch, so a relay at the starter solenoid solves that problem and makes this modified circuit similar to the original.

Power into the relay comes from the 12V always hot cable on the starter, power out goes to the starter solenoid terminal 50, ground to the relay goes anywhere on the engine and the power from the ignition switch turns the relay on and off. Easy-peazy.

I'll try to get some photos in the next few days, but it will only show the two white wires (Pin 1 connector I and F) connected by a jumper.

 

So the relay attached to starter wasn't enough?
When I bought the car the relay was attached to the starter and never had a starting problem. I removed the relay when I got rid of the stereo/alarm system not realizing it was for the starter and this is when my starting problem began