Consensus on modded boxer value | FerrariChat

Consensus on modded boxer value

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Newman, Mar 12, 2014.

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  1. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #1 Newman, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With boxer prices on the rise its making me think more about my plan to mod my 84 boxer into something that would out-perform many modern cars and more importantly provide the thrill I'm looking for out of a boxer.

    I love boxers but faster and more capable can be better! I have this 84 that needs serious TLC and I have a 512M crate engine sitting here begging to end up in that engine bay. My thoughts are if its modded properly it can actually retain its value. Offer a boxer for sale thats fully sorted with no excuses. Power comes from a new 512M engine, all OEM parts and fresh testarossa gearbox, custom exhaust. The original engine and gearbox complete with accessories is there on the sidelines. Its as easy as performing an EO service to undo the modifications so its back to stock and ready to sit on the fairway to be judged. If the car were offered for sale I would think that the car would have full value compared to a stock car plus the value of the M engine and gearbox. Of course the labour to convert it is a loss but part of that loss is the time to do an EO service anyway.

    The car I'm wanting to do this to needs paint, still wears its original tires (and italian air), never had an EO service and the engine although not stuck, sure needs some attention. Should I go the concours route or resto-mod route?

    I think there are buyers out there that want a boxer but want it with a twist and would pay a premium to get it, as long as that twist can be reversed easily and who would complain about getting a spare flat 12 in the purchase? I would be doing this for myself but you never know, everything is for sale right.

    Thoughts?
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  2. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye F1 Veteran
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    If you are doing it for yourself then enjoy it as you want it. However, I would never consider a resto-mod Ferrari and if you did decide to go that route, you would have to reverse all of those mods to get the true value from the car. If you want a challenge, try restoring the car to concours level and take it to Cavallino, where, on the lawn, you will experience a fantasy land where laws of physics cease to exist and judges scratch their heads and rub their chins while deducting points from something you cannot see and cannot argue until months later after hounding them for the scoring sheets.
     
  3. Cobraownr

    Cobraownr Formula Junior
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    #3 Cobraownr, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Carobu listed a 512BB "Hotrod" on eBay a few years ago that was similar to Newman's concept with 470 HP and 400 lb. ft. of torque, plus many other mods. Attached is a Word file of Carobu's brochure about the car, which ultimately sold for around $165,000 (to an FChatter) after the eBay auction closed with no buyer. Regardless of how well executed the modifications will be--and in Newman's case, that will be very well indeed--there will be very little if any chance of recouping the investment in the modded BBi, IMO. Today's vintage Ferrari market is all about "original original original" with heavy discounts applied to cars that aren't (I speak from experience!). While, as the Carobu car demonstrated, a buyer for a modded car can almost always be found, that will take longer because of a much smaller universe of prospects and is likely to yield a disappointing price. If the car will be a long term keeper, than sure, do the mods and enjoy the heck out of it. It would by a total blast to drive. But, if thoughts about future value and recouping the investment in the parts (wisely acknowledging that the hundreds of hours of labor will be uncompensated) are already present, I say don't do it. This is just my $0.02.
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  4. ken qv

    ken qv Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2006
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    Resto mod is my vote! Even though it would be harder to sell some of us (a few)
    know that an engine swap is really no big deal. Rebuild the original while it's out. Then
    IF you go to sell just throw the newly rebuilt original back in and get top dollar. Win win.
     
  5. bikerider

    bikerider Karting

    Feb 19, 2012
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    I would not buy an outlaw car. just not something id be personally interested in...
     
  6. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    He will never recoup his investment if he goes off the "original" track.
    Times are different as pointed in a post above,even correct engine but not matching # causes significant value drop.
    Non correct drivetrain would disqualify the car for most people on the collector/classic car market.
    It would make sense only if you want to keep and enjoy it forever,regardless of how it would affect it's value.
    In other words it is what he really wants that is important,value or fun?
    They don't always go together,you can't have fun if you don't get to drive it,if you do you lower it's value.
    You have to weigh what is more important to you.........
     
  7. ken qv

    ken qv Formula 3

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    Re-read my post... i suggest when he goes to sell that he put the original engine
    (totally rebuilt) back in. It's a one/two day job. i would not mod in any way that
    is permanent .... i agree that doing THAT would negatively effect the value.
     
  8. dspellbe

    dspellbe Karting

    Jun 21, 2013
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    My belief is that if you are into enjoying the car yourself, do what you want to make you happy, as life is short. If you are looking to sell the car in the next few years, then it would make sense to put the car back to its original condition, as both experienced & inexperienced buyers will usually go for an original, no problems or questions car vs. a mod resto version. Just my opinion for what it is worth.
     
  9. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    From a financial perspective, it will be a loser. The question is, how much non-financial enjoyment will you get out of it?
     
  10. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
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    The Carobu car was done with great taste. Looking at the cat in and out you would never know what it was except for the wheels.

    Is there a car available right now out in California with a lot of carbon fiber? It looks fast but the styling of the car was ruined to the point it will take a 100K to bring it back.

    I would vote for mods with holding the integrity of the design as to not change the look.
     
  11. grngts

    grngts Karting

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    Do it - and enjoy it. Looks like values are going up so when and if you choose to sell chances are that in today's $ you could not lose. At that time put the freshly redone original engine back in and you still have the 512M engine.
     
  12. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I have a BBi frame and BBLM body looking for a drivetrain.
    Build it stripped down race style like a F40LM.

    "You got your peanut butter on my chocolate!"
     
  13. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    If you do choose to mod your boxer just make sure you document it here at Fchat.
    That would give it "provenance" especially from a respected member with a proven track record.
    I say do it.
    PS you might consider wrapping the car. There is a wrapped grey 360 on ebay that looks very good.
    Ferrari 360 Modena Coupe 2 Door | eBay

    If your going to break the rules break them all.
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Already thought of that, I like flat black!
     
  15. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #15 Newman, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    More negative responses than I thought lol. The Carobu car was one I had in mind when I said there are buyers out there for modded cars vs original. I remember seeing it in Forza then seeing it sell. My yellow 308GTB resto is a perfect example of a non-stock car selling well and actually much higher than any other 308 at the time. I took a lot of heat here on my asking price, even had people message me through ebay to tell me how crazy I was. I got the asking price and gained a friend in the process. Im not convinced I would lose, especially because they are increasing in value but Ill only know if I pull the pin. It has to be done correctly and reversible, no body kit or cutting, just a matter of unbolting and bolting back on. The waiting engine and an EO away from full reversal was the idea. If someone listed a pimped out 246 on ebay today you can bet it would sell and get crazy money.

    I would also change the shocks and springs, maybe alcantara a used dash I buy, store the mint interior and shed some weight in the process.

    Heres a canepa car, wonder where it went? I really like the stance and it has a roll bar.
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  16. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If those three conditions are met, I'm a positive vote (but, then again, there's now way that I would spend $400K on a 246 -- so opinions vary ;)).
     
  17. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
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    Sad story about the guy that ordered the Carobu car, he wanted one his whole life, had the car done up big time, and then lost most of his worth in the '08 crash. Had to sell the car.
     
  18. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #18 Vincent Vangool, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
    I believe no value will be lost as long as the means to reverse it stay with the car.

    To me it just comes down to you swapping the engine back before you sell it if that's what the buyer wants.
     
  19. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Now thats what I wanted to hear! :)
     
  20. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    So no wide body flares, no plexiglass over the headlights, no window net and no straight cut drop gears! But I would remove the a/c. Without the stock boxer engine I can lower the car even more than the canepa car and have tons of ground clearance. Im already looking for parts I have in mind for the project.
     
  21. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    Maybe in 100 years cars will be worth more if the original engine was in it all the time? Versus a hiatus with another engine??

    But I feel that if the parts are there you have the ability to make it original before it even goes up for sale.

    So what does it matter?

    On the other hand if you look at the everything's for sale model... Let's say there is a buyer for the modified car, which IMO is rarer then one looking for an original, then they will approach you due to you have the modified they want and pay the price.

    If it doesn't happen the modified way and you want to move on and get top dollar for the car then just flip the newly rebuilt BB motor back in and store your M motor for the next go round.

    I don't see how you could lose if all that needs to be done to erase the mods is an engine swap?
     
  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    In a sense im trying to be lazy. If I mod the car I would not be inclined to undo it but it could be by the next owner if one wanted. If I built it I would enjoy that creative journey probably more than driving it, hard to explain but I love fabricating and doing things others may not do to such an extent that it seems more important than holding onto it. I would probably have a new vision for the next one half way through the current one. Once done, enjoy it briefly then pursue my next idea and let someone else enjoy the car. That or I keep reinventing it!
     
  23. wlanast

    wlanast Formula 3
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    considering you will make easily reversible mods, why wouldn't you?

    Technically, I have modded my car since I drive it with aftermarket tires/wheels. But since I am 4 removed spinners away from a bone stock BBi once I return the original (and I mean original from the factory) rubber and tires, it is in the same condition that won a Platinum last year.

    You have a few more nuts and bolts to remove, but you of all people would know what it takes to get it back to stock.

    Short of flogging it with all that extra power and trashing the thing :), I can't imagine why you would have diminished value resulting from the swap.
    W
     
  24. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #24 Newman, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. John B

    John B Formula 3

    May 27, 2003
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    I concur. Keep all the original stuff with it. When it's time to sell swap it back & get it classiched, that should erase all those concerns.

    Roughly... A swap is 24 hours @ $100, Plus Classiche @ $7,000 Less Sale of used 512M engine Plus purchase of new 512M engine ($5,000 diff?) = $14,400

    I'd say as long as the pleasure benefit of doing it exceeds about $15k, or even $10k because Classiche would add some additional value, go for it.

    I've done much sillier things...
     

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