No oil pressure after belt change - 365BB | FerrariChat

No oil pressure after belt change - 365BB

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by simonc, Jul 18, 2014.

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  1. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    882
    Herfordshire, UK
    Full Name:
    Simon Campbell
    #1 simonc, Jul 18, 2014
    I removed the 365BB engine to do a major (belts, water pump, cam seals, distributor seal, front crank seal, clean up and so on) and now it has no oil pressure. The pressure was fine before the major.

    Everything as expected when changing the belts and the camshaft reference marks all lined up at PM 1-6. I indexed the cams anyway and they were all spot on, so I set everything at PM 1-6, turned the engine over by hand a couple of times, rechecked the marks and then put everything back together and re-installed the engine. As part of the usual pre-start checks I spun the engine on the starter to build up some oil pressure but the dashboard gauge showed nothing. Checked the oil level (new oil, new UFI filters and level OK) and tried again but still no oil pressure. I put a mechanical gauge on the engine and this also shows zero pressure.

    I removed the engine again and it removed the cam covers. The timing marks are all correct but the cams/valves were not as oily as I expected. I had used assembly lube on the cams and valves when I put the covers back on earlier. I applied some more lube and tested the compressions using the starter and all compressions are fine (165-180). I removed the oil filters thinking that maybe I had two faulty filters (unlikely) and spun the engine again with no oil filters and expected to see oil flowing form the filter mountings but there is none.

    Tomorrow I will check the oil pressure relief valve is not stuck open. Maybe the oil pump needs priming but I'm not sure how to go about that - perhaps inject some oil into the pump using a large syringe via the oil pressure gauge mounting hole.

    Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions?
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,934
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    #2 turbo-joe, Jul 19, 2014
    I once had an equal problem with a BMW
    I drained the oil over the weekend and on munday I put oil in again, started the engine and had no pressure. after a while cranking without sparkplugs inside I removed the oilfilter but still no oil was coming. so I took some oil and put this into the pressure line at the oilfilter until nothing was going in anymore. filled the filter with oil and put in on again. then starting the engine again without plugs and I had oilpressure. so it has been air in the oilsystem and the oilpump was only tranportating air and no oil.

    I never had a 365 BB in my garage but when I have a look at the parts catalog I see that this engine has not a dry sump sytsem. so it could be because of so long no oil in the pump that you have the same "air" problem?
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,388
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    #3 tbakowsky, Jul 19, 2014
    I have had a couple of bum ufi filters in the past resulting in the exact symptom you describe. Changed the filter, all was good.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,150
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #4 Steve Magnusson, Jul 19, 2014
    Unfortunately, the port for the oil pressure sensor is mounted on the wrong side (oil filter output side) of the anti-drainback valves in the oil filters to backfill the path from the oil pump to the oil filter input. Don't know if it's possible, but, with the oil filter(s) removed, you'd want to put oil into the annular port area feeding the oil filter input (not the center hole port which is the oil filter output side to the engine).

    Also, did you wait a while between filling the sump and doing the starter cranking? Much of the air in the pick-up assembly has to "bleed" past the small clearances inside the oil pump (and it may never do so as romano stated).
     
  5. 365boxer

    365boxer Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2004
    391
    La Drova, Spain
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    Nick
    #5 365boxer, Jul 19, 2014
    Simon, remove and fill both oil filters. All will be well.
     
  6. 365boxer

    365boxer Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2004
    391
    La Drova, Spain
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    Nick
    #6 365boxer, Jul 19, 2014
    All the timings etc you are checking have no bearing on oil pressure at all, the oil ways and pump have drained, I can come over Monday if you need me.
     
  7. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    882
    Herfordshire, UK
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    Simon Campbell
    #7 simonc, Jul 19, 2014
    Thanks everyone for your inputs. Only just read all of these but we are clearly all thinking along the same lines as me.

    Been working on the problem today. Checked the oil pressure relief valve and it is fine. Tried squirting oil into the pressure sender feed port but as Steve says it is on the wrong side of the oil filter anti-drain valves. There is an allen-key plug on the oil filter housing that allows access to the right oil way though and I injected oil into this successfully. Spun the engine on the starter and the oil pressure came back - hooray!

    I then put the cam covers back on, put the front of the engine back together so the engine was ready to go back in the car and then checked the oil pressure. It was back at zero and would not come up! This really only left the oil filters as a cause of the issue (Nick - I had filled them prior to installing them). I had a spare pair on the shelf so I removed the ones I had installed and substituted these, primed the system again and tested. The oil pressure returned. I checked it again after 20 minutes and spinning the engine on the starter gave good oil pressure.

    I'll leave it overnight and check it again in the morning. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
     
  8. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    882
    Herfordshire, UK
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    Simon Campbell
    #8 simonc, Jul 19, 2014
    Hi Nick, I realise that, I was just giving some background to the problem :)

    Thanks for the offer re Monday. I may take you up on that if I get any more problems tomorrow.
     
  9. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
    New England
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    David Feinberg
    #9 fastradio, Jul 19, 2014
    Exactly....Pretty much standard operating procedure with the inverted filters.
     
  10. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Herfordshire, UK
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    Simon Campbell
    #10 simonc, Jul 20, 2014
    Agreed, it's a procedure I've always followed on all my cars
     
  11. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    882
    Herfordshire, UK
    Full Name:
    Simon Campbell
    #11 simonc, Jul 20, 2014
    I fitted the engine today and everything is OK. Thanks everyone for your great advice.
     

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