DIY Major Service Part 4: Lower Radiator Hose...Doh!!! | FerrariChat

DIY Major Service Part 4: Lower Radiator Hose...Doh!!!

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by MonoSpecchio, Jul 23, 2014.

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  1. MonoSpecchio

    MonoSpecchio Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2006
    415
    SoCal in the IE
    #1 MonoSpecchio, Jul 23, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
    Here are links to the other parts:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/boxers-tr-m/439956-diy-timing-belt-progress-we-have-liftoff.html

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/boxers-tr-m/442561-diy-major-service-part-2-water-pump-questions.html

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/boxers-tr-m/446870-diy-major-service-part-3-timing-belt-tension-not-tight-enough.html

    I have since R&R the valve covers (two hours) and checked the valve clearance (one hour). All valves within spec. Checked the cam timing marks and the cam pulley marks after about 20 rotations, replaced the timing belt covers, and replaced all the engine's coolant hoses with silicone ones (one hour).

    Lowering the car back onto the engine and subframe was challenging and involved two people...one to operate the lift, and one to move the A/C hoses and other obstacles (three hours). We had to raise the car again and re-align the subframe a few times, but this wasn't difficult because the rear wheels were still attached.

    Once the body was aligned and mated to the shock towers, the subframe bolts had to be installed. I used a couple of floor jacks to exactly line up the holes in the subframe forks to the chassis mount points. I found out about halfway through that there are two slightly different length subframe bolts! Shorter length is for the inner forks and longer for the outer forks. So I had to undo 8 and swap them out, then finished them all (four hours including my oops). The shock tower nuts take what seems like forever (one hour including breaks to rest my hands!).

    I had the lower radiator hose lined up perfectly and partially on when I was lowering the car onto the subframe, but the last few inches of lowering somehow dislodged the hose on one end. I didn't discover this until AFTER torquing up the subframe bolts. Doh!

    Any tricks to getting that sucker on with engine installed? I know it's legendary how much of a PITA it is. Please don't tell me I have to remove all the subframe bolts again.
     
  2. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    #2 Motob, Jul 24, 2014
    I just lube them up, fold them in half and slide them on from underneath. The silicone hoses are easier than the originals as the are more flexible. You have to have strong thin arms.
     
  3. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    #3 vincenzo, Jul 24, 2014
    Since my arms are neither thin nor strong... my experience was the exact opposite. In addition, my chassis was on a scissor lift +/-36" above the floor rather than over my head.

    I found that a silicon hose was impossible to fit. It was so flimsy it would not climb onto the firewall fitting while the engine was moved into place. The OEM hose was substituted for the silicon and then proved to be sufficiently stiff to climb over the fitting as the engine moved into place. Use a VERY THIN bit of lithium on the female hose end to wet the surface and LOTS on the male end - the excess will be pushed out of the system rather than pushed into it.

    The hose should be firmly clamped into place at the water pump with an additional -loose- clamp for the firewall side of the hose put in place before your installation. Messing about between the firewall and engine is a PITA when using a low rise lift.

    If it were me - I'd plan on un-bolting. YAMV (Your Arms May Vary).

    Of course.... all of this effort is potentially wasted without a hydrotest.

    Rgds,
    Vincenzo
     
  4. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
    2,045
    Winchester UK
    Full Name:
    Phil Worrall
    #4 Philwozza, Jul 24, 2014
    A trick I have used a few times is to place a LONG "tywrap" down the middle of the hose tight enough to hold it folded (90 degrees). Place the hose in between the two hose connections and when correctly located cut the tywrap while pulling the hose towards the connections. The hose usually springs into place. Remove the tywrap and check that you have it all in one piece :)
    Done

    P
     
  5. MonoSpecchio

    MonoSpecchio Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2006
    415
    SoCal in the IE
    #5 MonoSpecchio, Jul 24, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
    Vincezo, I did your pressurized hydrotest method before doing the timing belts, I forgot to mention it. Very easy to do...took less than 30 minutes to set up once you have the PVC caps and the Scraeder valve. I let it sit pressurized for three days, rotating a few times every day. Not a drip! Your post is also why I went with the OE hose and not silicone for just the lower water pump hose.

    I have very thin arms but not much strength or leverage due to my low-rise lift. My shoulders are sore! Will try Phil's method and lithium.

    Great tips guys, thanks!
     
  6. LP400S

    LP400S Formula 3

    May 18, 2002
    1,223
    West Coast
    #6 LP400S, Jul 24, 2014
    Not that hard to do. Do it before you hook up you oil lines and leave the oil filter off. Leaves more room. Little grease and like someone said little bending it will slip right on. Good luck.
     
  7. MonoSpecchio

    MonoSpecchio Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2006
    415
    SoCal in the IE
    #7 MonoSpecchio, Aug 11, 2014
    OK so here we are over a month later and I still haven't gotten that #@!*#$& hose on. I'm moving to a new house (long story) and I've burned about 3 hours trying to get it on. I've come to the conclusion that the hose is not an OE Ferrari hose. I thought Dave Helms would have replaced it with an OE during the last engine out, but he must have used what was already on there like I'm doing as the hose is in good shape.

    Eurospares has the OE Ferrari hose 122944 for $63.16 USD and the best price I can find in the US is $147.

    Has anyone ever been able to explain why we pay regularly pay 50-70% more for genuine F parts in the USA? Eurospares must get these parts from the same original source as the USA sellers...the only explanation I can see for the huge price differences is the sellers all add a bigger horsey tax in the USA. I would really rather to support our sponsors here if the prices were closer, and ordering from England is very slow and complicated.
     
  8. MonoSpecchio

    MonoSpecchio Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2006
    415
    SoCal in the IE
    #8 MonoSpecchio, Sep 15, 2014
  9. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    #9 vincenzo, Sep 16, 2014
    My engine cradle was tilted up by a few degrees at the front as the car was lowered onto the engine. Might try changing the engine angle a bit....

    Presumably you have plenty of grease on the male fitting and a very light coat on the female side?

    It'll go - work slow and use all due care to ensure that you are safe while working under the car.

    Rgds,
    Vincenzo
     
  10. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,387
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    #10 tbakowsky, Sep 16, 2014
    You should be able to get the hose on there. I have changed plenty on cars just because they were in bad shape, engine in place.

    The trick is to put the hose on the firewall tube first. Push it up as far as you can get it. Now start to get the edges of the hose started around the pump side all the way around. Now start working the hose onto the water pump fully. Use a silicone lube to make things easier. This should take you no more then 15 minutes.

    Remove the oil filter if it is in place.
     

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