Need some help - Just got my first TR | FerrariChat

Need some help - Just got my first TR

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by slcorts, Sep 26, 2014.

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  1. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    Ok - I just got my first TR a life long dream to own one

    A few issues

    1991 TR with 19,500 miles

    I got the car and went out for my first ride, the car does not seem to have any power, runs a little rough at idle, and just not seem to go as it should. This car should scoot and it just doesn't!

    Recent major service including belts and clutch was done before I received the car. Also the alternator was replaced as it was not charging. I believe the car sat dormant for a while with a dead battery and was only recently charged for selling. I talked to the owner of the car and he said the computer was down for a while and the car needs to be driven so it can relearn what it needs to run. I know this could be possible but it seems odd that it is so down on power. Any suggestions to help me sort this out? I put about 20 miles on it and it is a little better but it does not have much power. The car also has original exhaust and I was wondering since I have seen it here if the cats could be clogged?

    The original owner said it ran great before he shipped it but it was only in shipping for a few days before I received so I don't know how much truth there is to that.

    Also when I had the car inspected the inspector pointed a few little things that needed to be sorted one of which is the headlight switch was broke and needed to be replaced and it was which leads me to the next question. Dash lights do not come on when the headlights are turned on any ideas to check? Also the brights do not come on when you switch them at the stalk? Suggestions to check? I am a pretty mechanical guy and can do most things as I have owned and built a few cars including mustangs, corvettes, and jags, wrenching is just part of the hobby!

    Since this is my first Ferrari any help you can give me would be great. From what I have read on the site most of the members seem to be really helpful and I would appreciate any and all help.
     
  2. DreamCarrera

    DreamCarrera Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2006
    814
    S.E. PA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Has the car recently been filled with fresh gas or is the gas in the tank very old? If the car has been sitting for too long, the gas in the tank could be stale or it could have accumulated some water. Both of these things could cause the car to be down on power and/or run rough. Also, if someone skimped and only put 87 oct gas in the car then that could also be affecting its performance(especially if that 87 oct gas is old). If you are unsure of the quality of the gas in the car, then I would start there by filling the tank with fresh gas. Use at least 91 oct(preferably 93 oct) gas.

    As far as the computer in the TR re-learning, I don't think this is correct. I don't believe the ECU in the TR is adaptive in that way.

    I'm not sure what the issue(s) could be with the lights. I'm sure someone else will chime in here with more answers.

    Congrats on the new car and best of luck in getting the car sorted out!!!
     
  3. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 11, 2012
    6,252
    Papineauville, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Claude Laforest
    For the dash light have you checked the dimmer which is in the console?
    For the headlamps check the relays. Check the connectors on the fuse box.
    For the performance, are you sure both banks are running? These are like two 6 cylinder engines together. Each side has his own fuel injection and ignition. Do both exhaust seem to be hot equaly?
     
  4. phreakish

    phreakish Rookie

    Jul 21, 2014
    18
    Vegas
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Friend of mine who I've been helping with his 91 TR has similar issues.

    Headlights: his switch is actually broken where the stalk enters the switch body. It turns, but never engages the actual switch.

    Being down on power, it could be a few things. You'll need to list the engine # in order to get the proper replies. You can find it on the rear passenger side of the block. F113A, F113B, or similar.

    If you have lambda (oxygen) sensors, then you can do a check at the one-wire connection and see what you're seeing there. A properly running car, once warm, will see the voltage fluctuate at idle from just a few millivolts, to about .8v. If the measurement is static (stuck at .9v, or 40mv, for example) something can be amiss. From there, check with a timing light to see that all 12 cylinders are trying to fire.

    With those two checks, you can begin to try and run down potential faults.
     
  5. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    So thanks for the help so for

    I has having a brain fart so I thought the same thing that only 1 bank was running so I pulled out my handy laser thermometer cranked the car and sure enough the manifold on the left side (7-12) is cold and the right is hot. I guess next I need to start checking fuel pumps and relays. I did get in the fuse box and find the relays and both seem to be real warm. To me this does not seem right as when a relay is working correctly they will get warm but not hot?

    Still looking into the lights all of the fuses seem to be ok from a visual inspection but I need to get a closer look.

    As I am new to this car and the location of things I can not seem to find a dimmer switch for the dash lights where should I look?

    High beams well I have not got a clue? am I going to have to get into the column and look at what was done on the light switch replacement.

    Low beams come on and they pop up just no highs?

    Thanks for the help please keep it coming this is going to be a process and a most frustrating one.
     
  6. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    Sorry forgot to post the engine # F113A040 *26488*

    Thanks for the help
     
  7. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
    1,620
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Full Name:
    Joe
    For the Dash Lights, check the fuse in the panel. If blown, replace the fuse, then raise the rear bonnet and try the dash lights. If they work, then a possible cause of the short is the passenger side trunk / rear bonnet strut. This happened to me after I got my TR and I found out about the solution here (thanks to the experts of course). That strut gets loose and hits the metal bonnet, shorting out that fuse. My solution was to just put a piece of electrical tape on the engine side of the strut and it works great now (I can hear all the experts on the forum shuddering :) ). But I haven't had any dash light problems since.
     
  8. chabch

    chabch Formula 3

    Aug 15, 2010
    1,075
    France
    Full Name:
    Christophe
    If it ran great not long ago, could it be inverted O2 sensors? Maybe the seller put back the original exhaust for the sale and swapped the sensors. A defective coil could also be the problem, but I agree as well that old gas could create big power loss like this.

    For the headlights, remember that the switches are identical to the Lancia Delta. You could replace them at minimum cost. Look in the cross-reference thread and you'll find the exact part numbers.
     
  9. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    Ok so I figured out the dash lights, the dimmer was turned all the way down. So that's what that little knob is in the rev counter! Yea its staring at me!

    Now I have to figure out the high beams?

    Also the left bank is absolutely not running. Now is it electrical or fuel?

    The car was almost empty on fuel when I got it so I did put a fresh tank of 93 in it.

    Now what?

    Thanks for the quick responses I need all the help I can get!

    L
     
  10. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 11, 2012
    6,252
    Papineauville, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Claude Laforest
    Sorry, my car is Canadian and the dimmer is in the console :-(
     
  11. Triple Black

    Triple Black Karting

    Feb 8, 2014
    217
    Millington TN
    Full Name:
    David S
    348 owner here. I assume your car has 2 engine computers. Switch them and see what happens. Does the other side start working or not. That will confirm an electrical or fuel issue.
     
  12. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
     
  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    :)
     
  14. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 11, 2012
    6,252
    Papineauville, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Claude Laforest
    Slcorts, you've just been introduced to our own Mr Chairman ;-).
     
  15. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    Ok so I checked the fuel pup relays by jumping across and the pumps both run when you jump them across from 30 to 87 at the relay.

    So I still don't know where to go next. What is a good way to see if I actually have fuel pumping.

    Next ignition? Where to start?

    Thanks for all of the help so far!
     
  16. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    Next I pulled out the trusty timing light to check ignition. There is fire at all 12 cylinders so I guess that's good news. Back to a fuel issue.

    I know the pumps are running but do not know if I have fuel.

    I started the car and pulled the relay for the left hand pump no change. Put back in and pulled the right and the car died so I think its a fuel issue just need an idea as to figure out is the pump is bad or is there an issue down stream of the pump.

    Frustrating! Suggestions?
     
  17. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
    1,620
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Clogged fuel filter?
     
  18. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    So next I checked for fuel at the filters. I pulled the lines at the filters and they both have fuel going in and out. Tried to keep fuel from going every where!

    So went to injector at #7 no fuel when cranked.

    Went to injector at #6 just a drip drip when started and was idling.

    Next?
     
  19. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Making a fuel pressure measurement at the cold start injector port in the center of the fuel distributor with the fuel pump running would be best, but an indirect way would be to see if there is resistance to deflection of the airflow metering plate when the corresponding fuel pump is running (and the labeling on the fuse-relay panel is confusing/backward -- the names of the relays refer to where the fuel pump is mounted, not which bank it serves).

    Might also be useful to check the airflow metering plate and plunger for smooth deflection motion and return when the fuel pressure is zero (with everything "off', cracking open the line going to the cold start injector and letting a little fuel out will drop the residual fuel pressure to zero). If the fuel distributor plunger was stuck in the down position, or the air flow plate was binding in the air funnel (and not moving the plunger), that would explain no fuel coming out of injector #7. Good hunting!
     
  20. dkyranakis

    dkyranakis Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2013
    253
    Centreville, DE
    Full Name:
    Demetri Kyranakis
    When I received my 89 TR a few weeks ago it had a fuel injection issue. Car would start right up and idle well but under load no power. Both pumps had been recently replaced as were plug wires and most other items related...turned out to be a bad fuel pump relay (acutally shares a part number with Porsche 928). Seems to have fixed the issue..
     
  21. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    so next I pulled the air box and both boots so I could get to the distribution block. check for resistance under pressure and there is resistance. Then cracked the return line and pressure dropped and resistance went away. Puled the distribution block and checked out it was working fine and plunger works smoothly. Put all back together started the car no change.

    Left bank exhaust temp is 180 to 200 degrees after warm up right is 480 to 500 degrees. Left bank still not running.

    Next jumped the relay for the left pump with under pressure cracked #7 injector and there is fuel when you open the metering plate seems to have good pressure but I have no way of testing yet. Did the same with the right hand bank pump and #6 injector and the pressure at injector seems the same.

    Ok now what? I am completely baffled seems like it should run if there is fuel at the injectors. Though it does seem to be a little low at the 1/4 throttle position. At 1/4 throttle movement of the metering plate there is no stream it seems just to have a fast drip.

    I don't know where to go next do I change fuel pumps and start chasing electrical.

    Lost!

    Thanks for all the help and suggestions so for.
     
  22. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 11, 2012
    6,252
    Papineauville, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Claude Laforest
    If there is a little heat on the exhaust there is some fuel burning. Could this side belt be off a tooth?
     
  23. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    No, only if the right amount of fuel is at the injectors (for the amount of air entering the engine).

    Have you read pages D68-D105 of the TR WSM? (Available as the "TR WSM Supplement for catalytic converters", or something like that, at All Ferraris).
     
  24. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    you may test the following:

    disconnect the right trottle from the left trottle so you can accelerate the engine left and right bank separately. then you see if both banks are running. I once hat the problem that someone turned the srcew at the left trottle so much, that this side was not running as it should be. I think your problem is only a synchronising problem from both sides?

    what about the temperature when you drive the car a litttle with about 3500 rpm?
     
  25. slcorts

    slcorts Rookie

    Aug 29, 2014
    16
    Baton Rouge, La
    Full Name:
    Lawrence Corts
    Thanks ill try that next.

    Which screw are you talking about?

    Thanks!
     

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