Video of TR Funky Differential Noise.....lol | FerrariChat

Video of TR Funky Differential Noise.....lol

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by LRacine, Nov 4, 2014.

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  1. LRacine

    LRacine Rookie

    Aug 5, 2014
    28
    Florida & NY
    #1 LRacine, Nov 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, I have uploaded two short videos. One of Drivers side, one of passengers side.

    Claude and I will be doing an autopsy on this 1986 TR Differential. Little road trip with my differential riding shotgun, from Fla to the Hudson Bay in the next few weeks... (visit my kids at Queens University on the way).

    In the mean time I thought I would post this and see who makes the right diagnosis... also want to get parts before I drive up to Claude's and tear her apart.

    Videos are shot with car in neutral, opposite wheel blocked and prevented from turning.

    L
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  2. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Christian
    So one side you have some play in the axle and the other no play, correct?

    I might suspect a CV joint.

    Other than that.....how are you enjoying the white beast?
     
  3. greg 19425

    greg 19425 Formula 3

    Jan 6, 2011
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    Have my fingers crossed for you 'L'.
     
  4. 302Tim

    302Tim Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2011
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    Tim
    That's a significant knock, though amplified a bit since it is in an enclosed area. I tend to agree with Christian on (hopefully a) CV joint though the sound is very metallic (as in no grease left in joint).

    I cleaned/inspected/re-lubed mine at ~43K miles (had never been done before) and they were all solid with only plating wear, grease was a little more solidified on one joint (but again minimal wear). How many miles are on your car?

    If you end up replacing your joints the OEM is a German manufacturer (Lobro), replacements can be found readily for ~$125 USD and were also used on Porsche 930 and maybe 911T (as I recall).
     
  5. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    Han Solo
    Is the sound inboard or outboard?
     
  6. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    mine ones had the same knock knock sound, but only when driving and accelarating or decelerating.
    when I let the wheels run on a hoist there was nothing. my diff and also the pinion from the CP was broken.
    hope you have more luck
     
  7. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
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    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
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    R.I.P Diff .... :(
     
  8. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
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    The Cold North
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    Yup. Stop driving the car. Now.
     
  9. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
    6,275
    Papineauville, Quebec
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    Claude Laforest
    She isn't driving it. The diff will be done. She's evaluating the needs and do them one at a time. Engine will be coming out for service and the diff will be looked after. She's also doing the seats. She also has 16'' wheels and tires to replace the TRX.

    She's coming up north to visit her daughters and asked me if I could help(teach) her look at the diff. Which I'll do.
     
  10. LRacine

    LRacine Rookie

    Aug 5, 2014
    28
    Florida & NY
    Noise was coming from inboard drivers side (after taking trx and 16" wheels off and on checking for fit, and cleaning up spline and hubs, fretting corrosion starting on pass side spline) I went to listen to the noise again last night.... no more noise..... so it went away with hand rotation of the rear wheels in the air........

    I am not clear on the design of the Limited slip on the TR... I assume it has clutch packs? (I would be interested in understanding the design if someone wants to explain) If so could it be that a clutch pack or two have failed? The noise while driving was only when turning, not in a straight line.... and only when turning in one direction (turn to the drivers side).

    No visible play in the cv joint on the drivers side. About 2 deg of play on pass. side cv joint.

    I have yet to pull the drain plug and look for metal shaving.... building the courage up...

    The car has not been moved (other than to drive it onto the lift) since I drove her home. If I have to move her again in the garage it will be with a come along or my back pushing her.

    I have no intentions of engaging the drive train until this is fixed.....

    As I have heard my daughters say...."I'm dickless, not stupid!!!" lol
     
  11. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    theoretically it could be that the "2 clutch packages"inside the diff may be not ok. but then you would hear the noise nevertheless if the left side is going faster than the right side or otherwise. but also when the diff is broken ( what I think now ) the pressure to those clutch plates is not ok anymore. and until now I never had broken clutch- or steel discs in the diff, only broken diffs.


    you have the possibilty to place a mircophone with amplifier ( better would be 2 or three microphones ) to the gearbox? so one to the left diff bearing, the other to the right diff bearing? then you can locate better if it is a bearing or something more worse

    you are sure that the noise is not coming from the wheel bearing right back? because you only hear the noise when you go left.

    you have central lock wheels or 5 bolts? if center it could be that the wheel is moving a little
     
  12. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Christian
    A clicking noise when turning one direction is a classic CV joint failure symptom. To confirm, put the car in reverse and crank the steering full left. Now roll back a few feet. If the sound is more pronounced...its the left side. This might be a little difficult with the rear mounted engine noise. But if you can hear it with the engine running, it should still work.

    As for draining the Tranny oil its no biggie. You just need the proper size socket and a breaker bar....its on tight. Expect to find some metallic silt especially if its been many miles since a fluid change.
     
  13. LRacine

    LRacine Rookie

    Aug 5, 2014
    28
    Florida & NY
    #13 LRacine, Nov 9, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
    It is not draining the tranny oil that I fear (non-event.....) it is what I will find IN the oil that I am apprehensive about ie metal shavings....

    I think it might be a CV joint.. that was my original thought... except this noise was coming from the inner part of the half shaft (I had my ear right next to it)... (differential end) but with the horror stories I have read of the welds of the differential I am going to replace at this time.

    I don't think the noise is right for wheel bearing.... my recollection is wheel bearing noise is a constant steady growl... that gets louder

    Also, after I took the video's, I did some more fit checks on the 16" wheels and hand turned the wheels, cleaned up splines and hub..etc.... with both wheels in air, blocked, as when the video was taken (car was not moved, lowered etc), the noise has gone away... perhaps force of the now "suspended" unsprung weight putting "compression force" on the differential weld??? Not fixed but temp realigned... ???? Good a theory as any... it would be sweet if it was just the U-joint..... lol

    I am going to move the car tomorrow (via come along and trailer). For the first engine out I am going to have an experienced Ferrari Mech pull it with me looking over his shoulder (watching and learning). Last engine I pulled was before my kids were born (triplets... now 17 years old) the cars have been parked and the garage shuttered since then... so I am a little rusty, I am not intimately familiar with the design and nuances of the TR and I don't want to screw this up...

    I didn't want to drain the oil and look for shavings until after the car is in his shop.
     
  14. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    I'd put money on "chunks" rather than "shavings".

    Best Luck - hope I'm wrong.

    Rgds,
    Vincenzo
     
  15. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    #15 Spasso, Nov 11, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
    The failure of the differential weld allows the left side of the diff to move outboard against the the inside of the trans-axle side cover. The side cover, in effect, becomes the retainer thus prolonging the complete failure until it too gives way.

    I can't think of anything in the above scenario that would produce the distinct clunking noise with the amount of rotation you are showing.

    I do think of one scenario that would though.
    In the case of fellow owner Melvok, the splitting of the diff and case caused misalignment of the ring gear (crown gear) with the pinion gear, chopping teeth off as it went. Very messy and expensive. (His isn't the only one to trash the gears either).

    That in itself, along with the demise of Robert Hayden's car at 15 mph, convinced me to park mine until the new carrier goes in.

    In your case, hard to say.
     
  16. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Guys you're really putting her nerves to the test!
     
  17. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Hopefully not as she seems to be on top of a major AND diff change. Im just curious what her findings will be just from a communal knowledge standpoint.

    Lracine, please dont forget to update this thread and post pics:) Also, please share if you found chunks/shavings/gnomes on what drain plugs.
     
  18. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
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    Phil Worrall
    I would put money on the CV, if it was the diff it would be making more noise than that IMO.

    P
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Only part of what you said in video came out.

    Were you saying the other wheel was blocked and could not turn?

    It appears the axles are turning rather easily and if the other side is being prevented from turning it should be very difficult to turn.

    If that is all true, once it is apart I don't think it will be any big secret what is going on so no need for the guessing game.
     
  20. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

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    #20 lear60man, Apr 26, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
    Bumping this thread. LRacine, did you get the car up on the rack yet? If so what did you find?

    Disregard, Claude sent me a PM as it has not happened yet.
     
  21. Jaguar 15

    Jaguar 15 Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2013
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    CV joint....classic sound.
     

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