Value of mileage

I drive a little more than that. But then again Im gone half the year working. Sounds like a good number.

 

I hope my TR is some day worth $0, 'cause I'm gonna drive the heck out of it.

 

Hi,

From a point of view of keeping the car in good running order I suppose it depends on how regular it`s used over the period.

I don`t think doing a couple of 500 mile trips a year and leaving it layed up the rest of the time would be as good for it as using it every couple of weeks for a 40 mile trip each time.
Well maybe the starter motor wouldn`t last as long but that`s about all!

With the value it`s hard to tell. I would say that most investors in the current market would still pay more for a sub 10k miles car needing maintenance than a 20k miles car that`s fully sorted and up to date with maintenance, which is a bit sad but just the way it is I think.

Over say 20k miles though (I`m sure the people who are in it just for investment are only interested in real low miles), then it`s collectors/enthusiasts buying them to drive and enjoy aswell and I think many are starting to realise it doesn`t matter so much whether it`s done 20, 40, 60k etc. and lean towards the car that`s maintained. I`m not saying that a well maintained car with 25k miles will only be worth as much as a well maintained 65k miles car ofc but the impact of the miles will be a lot less.

Just for reference (here in the UK), the last high miles car at auction that I can find was an 86 LHD with 65k miles and fetched (63k GBP) close on 100k $ :

Bonhams : 1986 Ferrari Testarossa Coupé Chassis no. ZFFAA17B000062173


- where as this 87 RHD car with just 21K miles fetched (67k GBP) 110k $ :

1987 Ferrari Testarossa for Auction | Anglia Car Auctions


- I think that was a bargain though as a few months back an 86 RHD with 23k miles was advertised at (95k GBP) 150k $ and was displayed as sold a week later. Don`t know what it actually sold for ofc. :

1986 Ferrari Testarossa | Yorkshire Classic and Sports Cars


Cheers,
Dom.

 

TR ownership is all about miles. The more miles on her, the happier you will be.

I did over 30,000 in 7-8 years of ownership. I had no trouble selling the car with higher miles. Money comes and goes but good times behind the wheels stays with you forever.

 

Awesome - 30k miles of driving a Testarossa - value for money at any price!

If it wasn`t for the awful UK weather that would quickly turn it into a restoration project, it would be my only and everyday car.

It almost put me off buying one when I read about how easy they are to drive and live with where as Italian exotics are supposed to be difficult because that`s what gives them their "character" - but it`s had the opposite effect with me.

With my previous Italian`s, once the novelty of giving them a blast wore off (well I know it never wears off fully) - I realised they were such an effort for that short period of fun and tbh for 95% of driving my daily cars were better.

The Testarossa even though it`s old now, is almost as good at everyday driving as most daily cars - but has the noise and fun there for whenever you want it - so it`s not a waste driving it normally and even when you do it`s way more fun than driving an everyday car - so I think that`s why I`ve never got bored of it!

Dom.

 

98 miles = $499,000

 

Good one Blake...

 

Thanks Haig, I try
All these "value" threads are kind of making me crazy.

 

Unfortunately it's a sign of the times - with rising prices come more people who are looking at the TR as an investment as opposed to an enthusiast car. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just the reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7qQ6_RV4VQ

 

Miles means nothing when the car is now 25+ yes old.

I've seen 25,000 mile cars that were left outside in all kinds elements, from extreme heat to damp garages.

It's condition that's important , but of course, the cheap prices of ferrari's over the last few years has everyone focusing on mileage like an mustang as being the more important decision.

Wrong !

People that were on the fence the last few years are now pulling the trigger before they become unattainable for the enthusiast of the CAR.

You are a perfect example of a recent purchase.

 

Just like me! I missed the boat with Countach and BB. That's why I jumped on the TR. For me that was the next best 12 cylinder car.

 

Man Big Red, you sure are crusty! Why all the vitriol? Yes I purchased a TR last year before the recent price increase and got a great car at a great price. And I had been looking for upwards of three years before then. My original comment was based on all the recent value threads that have popped up by people brand new to the site (and also included the value threads started by me). However, if you note my tone in my value threads, it's not one of 'I wanna make money on this', it's more of 'oh no, are values really increasing this much?'

Just relax man, we're all equals here, whether you bought your TR brand new or yesterday.

 

Go back and reread your own post .... You said its part of the times ,what is ? a car goes up 5-10k and the guys buying them are flippers/investors and not a Testarossa fans ?

Why did you jump on this wagon and buy one after 3 yrs of looking ? Why is it ok for you, but others not while calling them flippers.

Do you notice all your posts are related to values and price increases more than others in this section, and usually a negative tone of price increases ? and you just joined.

Why are you always against prices going up ?

Please don't make me pull you past posts - just answer truthfully what your issue is with people buying and spending more than you did ?

 

Lol, I'm not against anyone wanting to do whatever they want with their cars. Plus, 'value' is subjective anyway. My questions about value, again, revolve around my own nervousness about driving a car that is suddenly worth hundreds of thousands of dollars (as I've said in previous posts). Testarossa prices have been in the ****ter for so long that to all of a sudden at least double within a year made me question whether the price shift was real or just dealer speculation, and that's why I posed the questions about value to the group. For something to talk about, you know, as a community. Feel free to stalk my previous posts on this board and you'll see that everything before about a month ago is about trying to learn about my car so I can fix my car myself. If I were to remember your previous posts, didn't you rail against msdesignltd about 'pumping and dumping'?

The idea that ramblings on this BBS influence TR prices in the real world is not true and for this community to stay strong, people shouldn't have to be concerned about what to say and what not to say.

 

To answer your question directly; no I was not one of those against msdesignltd, go back and see for yourself. I was one of the few supporters.

As for your concern of you being Worried about prices doubling.
You got lucky getting into the car , instead of being thankful that you got in the door and if prices tripled , you ride a financial way , guys like you rather see prices compressed.
Now it all makes sense - thank you, enjoy your car as much as possible bud !

 

I have been regularly ploting the 512 TR market to study the model.

The graph is a market snapshot made yesterday showing asking prices of every LHD 512 TR I found for sale in Europe. I then added a trendline so you see the Price vs Km relationship.

I have only been taking data points for LHD 512 TR cars in Europe, as that's what I'm interested in because I'm in France. Sorry, but I excluded F512M and Testarossa.

But the Price vs Km relationship should be similar for the cars / market that interests you.

(I have excluded anything much below 10.000 Km, as I'm not interested in "museum" cars ; I like to enjoy my cars as their maker intended!)
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I agree with this. In the vintage/classic car world, mileage literally does mean nothing, except for the rare time capsule original car (which you can never drive anyway).

I'm interested to see when the market "inflection point" occurs and mileage no longer reigns as the main determinant of value.

 

The slope in my graph seems to indicate that the impact of Km on value is 460€ / 1000Km, or 4600€ / 10.000Km.

Seems like a fair price to pay to enjoy one's 512 TR!

(although to be fair, that does exclude fuel and maintenance...)

 

Pic from lunch last week. Get insurance and drive the car. We only have x amount of time.
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Investing and enthusiasm are NOT mutually exclusive!

a) I doubt anyone with nil enthusiasm for cars would seriously buy a TR as a pure investment. Far too much hassle, real and perceived. We take what non-enthusiasts call 'hassle' as part of the ownership experience. So we don't mind.

b) I'm 40 yrs old and have had a huge passion for the 512 TR, ever since 1992. Owning one is a dream come true. But a dream that I couldn't reasonably afford were the running costs not offset by capital apreciation. I can just about stomach the negative cashflow, but only because I'm confident I'll get my spendings back on resale. And I'm willing to risk being wrong about that. ;-) Bottom line: however passionate I am about the cars, I wouldn't have bought a 512 TR if I didn't think the market was rising in price.

 

Alex, I'm curious since you are in France , how much impact did the new tax system on your side of the pond have on extoic cars. It's a documented fact that Europeans in general drive there exotics more than North Americans, therefore, once the new taxing occurred did that force many older cars with higher mileage to hit the market to avoid future tax hits ?
I saw a report ( can't recall where ) that claimed 75% of Ferrari sales in Italy dried up last year Because of there new taxing / policing system.
Can you fill us in on some changes you ace seen ? If any ?
Thanks

 

Sorry Big Red ; although I too heard about the change in Italy, there has been nothing similar where I live in France. So I cannot intelligently comment.

I can say that I have NOT noticed 512 TR being cheaper in Italy than in other european countries. Otherwise I would gladly have gone shopping there. Quite a few cars for sale are located in Italy, but I guess Europe is small enough that people are willing to travel to buy, and so prices even out. Maybe there is more margin for negociation in Italy, I don't know...

 

There is no similar tax in northern europé also,i Think this tax is only in Italy.
What i Heard the italian dealers have more margin for negociation??

 

Alex, nice graph. It also shows a cluster between the 20,000-40,000km. Thus, one could say the average 512TR in Europe has approx 30,000km.