Revving to 6800rpm redline when cold | FerrariChat

Revving to 6800rpm redline when cold

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by ImYourTestarossa, Jan 25, 2015.

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  1. ImYourTestarossa

    Jan 25, 2015
    6
    The throttle cable was worn and binding on my '87 TR, so I pulled a new one through (fun times!) I had my father start it while I was in back ready to check the movement of the linkage.

    It cranked over for a few seconds before catching, then it sputtered for a few seconds like it always does when starting stone cold, then suddenly it revved up to redline! It stayed at redline for about five seconds before I could push the linkage down and my hard of hearing father heard me yell at him to kill the ignition. Why he didn't shut it off when it first started redlining like that is beyond me. I felt so sick about it!

    I'm pretty sure it turned over long enough to build oil pressure, but what harm did I do to the engine by redlining it stone cold? It seems to run like it did before this happened with no blue smoke indicating broken rings.
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,388
    The Cold North
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    You'll be fine. Just find the reason for the stuck linkage before you drive.
     
  3. wkumari

    wkumari Karting

    Jul 15, 2011
    169
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Warren
    Yeah, it'll be fine -- just don't make a habit of this...

    These engines can survive a huge amount of abuse - you see similar things in showrooms, yobbos showing off to their friends outside restaurants, etc.

    It's far from ideal, but once isn't likely to have caused any issues...
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    You may question why your father didn't shut it off but I question why you started it in the first place.

    Confirm proper throttle operation then start motor.
     
  5. ImYourTestarossa

    Jan 25, 2015
    6
    You're right Rifle...it was ultimately the fault of the fool behind the wrench.
     
  6. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
    6,283
    Papineauville, Quebec
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    Claude Laforest
    You would know by now if something bad had happen. One of the problem over revving cold is spinning a bearing by the cold viscous oil. When this happen the oïl passage is blocked and instant knocking is heard. This is why they have oïl temp gauges.
     
  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2004
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    I am assuming it was not ultra cold, ie below 30F with oil like treacle. Evena regular start at that temp is not great for any engine. At 50F the viscosity of the oil is way above where it would be at 30 and already equivalent ot 5 mins of warmup.

    Running amtor at revs while its cold is more of an issue if under load, as lubrication more impoirtant for load, also you wnat the metals to heat up uniformly, heads block etc.

    In short few seconds at high revs will have done nothing to the motor.

    My guess is the oil flowed just fine, the motor was also not under load.

    Good thing there is a rev limter, otherwise you woudl have found out how high these mtors can rev before blowing.

    Rest easy.
     
  8. alexwagner

    alexwagner Formula Junior

    Aug 31, 2013
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    Paris, France
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    Alex Wagner

    Agree with this (I'm an automotive engineer).

    (although revving foot to the floor in neutral and without a rev limiter typically doesn't do any damage, because well before anything breaks the valves start floating (the valve springs can't keep up) and this valve float causes a loss of power, making the engine hit a natural rev limit. Damage from over-revving happens not under power but by the engine being spun too hard by the gearbox, when changing down too early).
     
  9. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
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    Claude Laforest
    Believe me guys, cold oïl can spin a bearing. I've seen it more than once. The ones I've seen were running on 20W50.

    Here is a good video about cold oïl. BTW this laboratory is in my area.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII
     
  10. ImYourTestarossa

    Jan 25, 2015
    6
    I'm in san diego so it was about 70 degrees out...hopefully the oil wasn't too cold. I am running 20W50 Mobil 1 though. No knocking that I can hear...and I've been listening closely.

    Thanks for the input everyone.
     
  11. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
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    Claude Laforest
    Don't worry! You don't have to hear closely when it's knocking because of oïl passage blockage. It's an instant big Knock. You would have know.

    The last one I saw was my friend's 427 side oiler in a Cobra. After that I explained to him what the oïl temp gauge was for ;-). For the first ride after the rebuilt I told him to be carefull and wait the oïl to be at least warm before revving too high.

    His response was ''I think you better go yourself and keep it for a day to make sure it's well done''

    I think he never drove it again since.
     
  12. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Your oild was flowing just fine.

    Starting and idling acar at 30F is worse, and lots of peopel do that every day.
     
  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Valve float in a Ferrari motor?

    Good luck with that one. The valves float about 1000 RPM after the rods break.


    Stick to what you know.
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Change to 5-40
     
  15. alexwagner

    alexwagner Formula Junior

    Aug 31, 2013
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    By definition, I know only what I know. Nothing more, nothing less.

    So yes, I will (inevitably) stick to that then.

    (It's possible that some engines would break a rod before valve float and that would be very unusual to say the least. For example, good luck trying to bend Carillo rods through revving in neutral!)
     
  16. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    As people here are saying, if you damaged somethign you would hear it, at 70F 20 weight oil is flowing just fine.
    These things are an either you hurt it and can hear a knoking etc or its just fine.

    And yeah i know you can drive yourself crazy trying to hear new noises, but if you hurt it, the sound would be very obvious.

    Drive and enjoy.
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Ferrari valve springs are good are their rods are trash.
     
  18. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Aug 28, 2005
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    If nothing is clanking and it now runs fine, then as already said - no foul.

    At worst, the higher revs until oil pressure built up and the higher revs with cold oil might have caused a bit of increased wear on lubricated components, maybe equivalent (at a wild guess) to 20 regular low rpm cold starts or a thousand miles of driving. Not so bad as long as it's a one-off!
     
  19. 1974gt4

    1974gt4 Formula 3
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    Sep 19, 2009
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    in my garage...
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    ...all components are built with a 'safety factor', Colin Chapman made this margin so thin it ended up killing F1 drivers, your TR , as a production car can tolerate such indiscretions, valve float, rod stretching for the duration of the incident, shouldn't be an issue.

    As other informed members of this forum have pointed out: no noise, no foul.

    Was it 'good' for your engine? Obviously no, an unfortunate circumstance? yes.

    Drive on…and don't let it happen again. my 2 cents are free.
     
  20. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    #20 vincenzo, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
    By 1st hand experience I can vouch for this. It was an obvious knock. I limped it home. The motor seized in my driveway as I was pulling individual plug wires to determine the affected cylinder. The rod bearing spun.

    Ahhhh.... the foolishness of youth.

    If your motor is not knocking - chalk it up as a cheap lesson. No significant load or revs with anything but fully up to temp oil. No worries.

    Pay mind to Rifledriver... 20W50 is too thick.

    Rgds,
    Vincenzo
     
  21. MonoSpecchio

    MonoSpecchio Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2006
    415
    SoCal in the IE
    ^^really? Even in desert climates like socal where the temps rarely drop below 50F? I run 15w50 Mobil 1...but then again I'm pretty crazy and drive the car when it's 100F and higher. The OP probably uses this same weight as I don't think Mobil 1 comes in 20w50.
     

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