Are Dealers Stressing out over tr's | FerrariChat

Are Dealers Stressing out over tr's

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by msdesignltd, Mar 9, 2015.

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  1. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    IMO.....Me Thinks so..!

    The Rise was too quik , I do not see much in the Domestic Market changing hands at these prices...the next few weeks as the weather breaks will surely tell..
    Dealers need to do this for a living. Individuals do this for a longer term investment..
    So now that the dealers pushed the envelope because they need turnover, the individuals are under the impression that they are selling at this range, but they are not...the Individuals dont have to back down....so the dealers will not back down, because they are buying from individuals...higher mileage cars are not selling at all at those prices...
    But the Market is locked now...its a viscious cycle...

    It would have been fine.....if they rose slowly...but now we are stuck...People may just want not to buy tr's for a while...
    Long term I think the tr will do fine...it will just follow the stream into oblivion!

    Whats your Take Jason???....IAG
     
  2. archibald drinkwater

    Aug 31, 2009
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    patrick f.
    I think cars have been selling at $115k
     
  3. CornellCars

    CornellCars Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2005
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    I've had 6 single flying mirror cars go overseas in the past 5 months, most before they hit the open market. Within the past 30 days we sold 1988.5, 1989, and 1986 with enough interest that I expect 2-3 more by the end of March to be gone. It takes me long enough to properly prepare our cars for market that I'm only getting 1-2 ready for sale every couple weeks, and between sales that are happening without advertising, upcoming auctions, etc that rate looks to be a bit faster than I can buy new cars as my inventory level has dropped to a point that I'm less than comfortable with. I'm typically replacing 2-3 TRs per Ferrari Market Letter ad, which is about where i want to be.
     
  4. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    #4 msdesignltd, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
    Well, Scratch my Bottom...
    I am wrong Again..

    I had a conversation with another dealer who says The sales at the higher prices are non existant currently...ie Daytonas and Dino sales have literally stopped...
    This is why the tr has become so desirable...but now it is in question..

    I would imagine there is a sweet spot # for selling , My guess is 100 to 150 g's.
     
  5. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
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    makes me think it is time to sell my 87
     
  6. CornellCars

    CornellCars Formula 3

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    Your guess is spot on, with a few high or low mileage outliers
     
  7. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 26, 2005
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    Daytonas and Dinos really do feel like they're at a peak to me. Two of my all time favorites, but there's no way I'd write a check for one at current prices.

    I think TRs are expensive at $100K, but not in nosebleed territory.
     
  8. archibald drinkwater

    Aug 31, 2009
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    patrick f.
    I think the testarossa market might be a bit hotter in Europe. Last 4 recent auctions were all at or over $200k
     
  9. zudnic

    zudnic Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2014
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    These thread on value are actually useless because people never divulge what they paid or even the dealers don't divulge what they sold the car for. People (dealers) can ask whatever they want, the real number is what it sold for.

    I'm willing to bet the 86 mentioned went to Canada (not really overseas). A dealer in Ontario has one for sale, fails to mention the mileage. The pictures are the same as the previous dealers pictures in their EBay ad. My guess was the car sold in the $80k range.
     
  10. ace355

    ace355 Formula Junior

    May 23, 2008
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    Isn't this what dealers say when they are trying to accumulate stock...'Market has frozen" "No sales", etc..."that why i have to offer you a lower price on YOUR car"

    Then they turn around and offer at or above the market and put your money in their pocket.

    As you said...they have to make money...
     
  11. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Very perceptive of you :D
     
  12. CornellCars

    CornellCars Formula 3

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    Funny, I forgot about that car, it wasn't in my count but it did end up in Canada (though I didn't sell it to that gentleman, there was another party in the middle).
     
  13. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye F1 Veteran
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    Sep 20, 2009
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    With a few rounds of QE from European Central Banks, there will be a continued flight towards assets, which is what happened here the last couple of years. I'd expect more Daytona's and Dinos to go back to Europe over the next 18 months.
     
  14. Jaguar 15

    Jaguar 15 Formula 3
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    Euro at 1.07....I think buying all classic cars in Euro to bring here will pick up.
     
  15. zudnic

    zudnic Formula 3

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    Its funny when dealers forget cars. I was friends with a car dealer in Toronto. He had a habit of putting cars in his warehouse and forgetting about them for years.

    Same dealer in Ontario, has a 92 and a 93 TR. The 93 he is asking $299k CDN and the 92 he is asking $289K CDN on EBay they have an ask of $199k U.S. About two weeks ago the Rolls dealer in Montreal had a 92 TR, needed service and they asked $122k CDN for it. Id bet its the same car. So he paid somewhere near the $122k CDN for it. Believe they only sell when the prices are near wholesale then some of the crazy retail asks.

    I usually figure out wholesale and try to buy near that number. I rarely loose money when I sell on a used car I've bought. Still deals if you really look around.
     
  16. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
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    car dealers in Italy have purchased many testarossa

    i know of few with 10 cars or so EACH...

    testarossa are speculator's choice at the moment
     
  17. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Lets look at it another way. Daytonas are 750k and flat, Dinos 350-400K and flat. they both grew hugely in value. Even boxer are now around 300K. That means for buyers in the 200-500K range a whole lot of cars are no longer potential purchases. The pool of buyers below 200K or 300K is much larger than the pool in the 350-1mill range.

    Somehting "claassic" has to fill the price ranges formerly ocupied by Boxers and Dinos, Trs now fill that spot. So Trs will be in the 90-250K range. 308s are now filling the range previously ocupied by Trs.

    If daytonas and boxers and dinos fall, then those choices become available again in a lower price range and Trs and 308s will fall. If those higher prices cars maintain their value more or less, even if flat, Trs will stay where they are and settle into the 90-250K range depending on condition spec..


    If you look at current Tr prices then, its poretty clear there isa big potential pool of buyers, and there is still some room for dealer to make money/appreciation. Wheras for Dinos and Trs there is no reall appreciation comming and supply at current pices seems balanced.

    Of course there are some other factors, with the Euro dropping we are probably seeing soem money going into cars as alternative asetts, but at a certain point the prices europeans can pay will drop due to exchange rates. Ont he positives the Tr is iconic, and its time period is coming.

    It you own a Tr at 90-120k, other than maintanace costs you cant loose, and over time even with that you will gain.
     
  18. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Boxerman, your post really makes sense and gives me a fresh perspective on the mechanics behind the valuation of the TR. The TR, as a collectable "filler", makes sense as it checks off so many boxes: Wild styling, devoid of complicated electronics, 12 cylinders, Enzo era etc.
     
  19. zudnic

    zudnic Formula 3

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    Its true its good filler, checks all the right boxes. But are they selling at high asks, Id say no. Its still an $80k for earlier cars to $120k for latter models. 308's are also the same, popular, wanted, but don't fly off the shelf at more then $50k.

    People need to post what they paid when they buy one of these cars. Dealers should also tell us the selling price. Without this info, value threads are useless.

    I don't count retail auction sales, usually because they are above retail in prices. Same reason price guide tools are useless.
     
  20. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Youa re right, but the dealers are going to buy up stock and control the inventory of nice cars, the dmemand and filelr story will then support their prices. the few cars they dont own will have high asks from owners.

    Look a few years back a running Tr that was Ok was a 45K car and the best one in the world was not 80k. At the same time boxers were your 80-120K cars although very few sold for 120K. TRs are going where boxers were. After that Trs will becone a 'thing' and go towards where boxers are now.

    After the Tr and 308, its pretty much th end of the line in terms of a classic ferrarie xperience, the 355 arguably fits as well, after that its totaly different animals. A Tr has more in common in terms of driving experience with a daytona and 275 than it does with a 550 or the cars that came after. the dividing line is not when the cars were produced as Sheehan tired to dow ith enzo era etc, the dviding line is what the cars are about.
     
  21. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    It seems some dealers are offering to buy the Testarossas for a lot cheaper than certain dealers are selling them for. But then again that's business.
     
  22. CornellCars

    CornellCars Formula 3

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    It's really really difficult to stay in business unless you follow this model. We tried it the other way for a few months but, amazingly, our accountant told us if we kept going in that direction, we would need to consult a bankruptcy attorney. ;o)
     
  23. sherrillt

    sherrillt Formula 3
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    selling a product for what you bought it for...the no profit model is interesting.
     
  24. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
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    LOL LOL LOL
     
  25. zudnic

    zudnic Formula 3

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    Some dealers might hoard a few and then sell them for much higher prices. But that's a flawed business model. Costs money to store cars. Its more profitable to always be selling.
     

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