rotor flange oil leak on camshaft? How do I fix this! | FerrariChat

rotor flange oil leak on camshaft? How do I fix this!

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Veedub00, Aug 28, 2015.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,900
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    #1 Veedub00, Aug 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Folks, I think I have an oil leak where the distributor rotor mounts to the camshaft. Is this possible? I see a pin on there, can I knock that out and then this end slides out somehow?

    I just bought a new cam seal from Ricambi and it still leaks, so it looks like I wasted money already. I started the car and ran it on the left bank while the right bank camshaft end was exposed an it looked like oil wasn't coming form the camshaft seal. So is there an o-ring in this flange?

    Thanks for your help! It looks like I am going to miss taking the TR to a cool upcoming cars and coffee unless this is an easier fix then I assume.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
    2,045
    Winchester UK
    Full Name:
    Phil Worrall
    The oil seal sits on the larger diameter and as long as this is in good condition it should not leak, ever.
    In my experience a leak in this area can be caused by one of the three end plate mounting bolts being loose / threads stripped and leaving the end plate loose and leaking.

    Phil
     
  3. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,900
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    I think it's definitely leaking from where the the arrow is pointing. How does that cap go on there? Can I pop it off? I haven't found any pictures of this assembly at all.
     
  4. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2012
    9,799
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Sam
    #4 ozziindaus, Aug 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The seal you're referring to is #5 right? Looks like your pic is part #25 which according to the exploded view is a single unit. Maybe that's the part that needs replacing.

    Is #25 an interference fit to the camshaft (seal)? If not, then I'd think there must be another seal between the cam shaft and the distributor. View below does not show it.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. slewman

    slewman Karting

    May 4, 2004
    158
    Go to the dealer and order the updated cam extension there is a service bulletin
     
  6. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
    2,045
    Winchester UK
    Full Name:
    Phil Worrall
    I don't know if my car has had the update or not but from memory the component (#25) on my car is solid one piece so oil cannot penetrate internally to the location shown in the photo.
     
  7. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,928
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    I just had a look at my second engine, but those heads are from a M model. so totally different
    and on my car I don´t like now to remove all.
    but when I remember right, the no. 25 is in the camshaft. on the sketch there is no seal, but I think if you would put on a little sealing ( silicone ) your problem would be solved. but I think even if the oil comes out there the oil can not go into the distributor because you have seal no. 5 for this.
    on no. 25 the seal no. 5 prevent oil coming to the cap.
    try to remove no. 25 and inspect exactly, may be it is broken?
     
  8. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,900
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    Yeah I'd like to learn more about part 25. Was there an update to this part? I see used ones are over a grand. I think I'll try some silicone or something first. I think I have to pull the camshaft to properly remove part 25.

    But I wonder how they put the triangular part on the coupling. Press fit somehow?
     
  9. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,900
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    thanks, I'll investigate this further.
     
  10. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,900
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    #10 Veedub00, Aug 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    cool.

    Originally Posted by Rifledriver View Post
    Magneti Marelli changed the plastic composition on the rotors during 4 valve production and we had nothing but trouble with insulation breakdown causing the spark being bled off into the camshaft. In typical Italian fashion instead of admitting they made the plastic cheaper everyone blamed the metal tang that held the rotor to the cam. Ferrari decided for the next generation (3.2 and TR) they would do a redesign and eliminate the metal tang and design a bolt on rotor. During dyno testing the rotors were breaking due to torsional vibration of the cams and the solidly bolted on rotors inability to deal with it. Again in typical Italian fashion the redesigned the cam extension to provide a built in vibration damper. It cured the breakage problem but in short order the rubber broke loose from the outer body and because of the hollow, pressurized cams severe oil leakage happened. It earned the TR's the name Liberian Tanker. We had jokes about TR's coming in for draining the distributor caps and check the oil. Again in typical Italian fashion the next solution was to improve the quality of the plastic and go back to solid cam extensions.


    The entire affair was finally solved by doing exactly what needed to be done in the first place, improving the plastic but instead they went through redesigns, millions probably in warranty claims, many pissed off customers etc.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,900
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    found the part. Ricambi has them for $230. Part 126166
     
  12. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2012
    9,799
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Sam
    I'm still curious how the camshaft is sealed from the distributor. IOW, is everything right of #5 seal contact to #25 on your picture normally filled with oil? Hard to believe.
     
  13. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,900
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    the cam seal keeps oil out of your distro. There is oil inside the cam itself. It looks like my coupler is a two piece. The triangular piece is press fitted into the part that goes into the cam (which is pressed into the cam itself) and there is a cap that closes off the bottom. I think oil gets past the cap, works its way between the two shafts and eventually out the brittle rubber isolator.
     
  14. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,112
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    Is there really oil inside that last bit of the cam too tha can leak ?
     
  15. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,900
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    the cam gets pressurized oil inside of it. Its a hollow tube.
     
  16. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2012
    9,799
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Sam
    Why is it hollow and why does oil run through it? I can understand the weight advantage but the oil???
     
  17. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,112
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    :D !
     
  18. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,928
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    F is doing this since a very long time. it is for lubricating the bearimngs because there is only aluminum and steel
     
  19. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,112
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    So oil flows through these camshafts, giving oil to bearings through little holes ?

    But not at this end of the extensions where the distributor rotor mounts to the camshaft I hope ?
     
  20. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2012
    9,799
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Sam
    Makes sense. I think the "distributor lubricating" :D is just a side effect of gun drilling the cam.
     
  21. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,928
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    where there is oil there can not be any rust :) :)
     

Share This Page