Differential flange oil seal leak - solution | FerrariChat

Differential flange oil seal leak - solution

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by mikael82, Aug 31, 2015.

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  1. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
    #1 mikael82, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So you changed our diff to BB, Testarossa or 512TR, great!
    Did you change all oil seals "as you where there" ...

    Odd thing is that Ferrari do not have left side oil seal anymore and it is replaced by same seal that you find from right side.

    right side 133628
    left side 141509

    But wait!! now you got oil leak from left side differential flange. Well I did and change that seal three times.
    I got seals from Europsares, Superformance and dealer all same right side seals and dealer mechanic asure me that this will work, well it did not.

    Issue here is that your old seals have dirrection, pointed with arrow and all new seals are right side.
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  2. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
    #2 mikael82, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After I have open diff out to change new diff axels, after I have changed second new diff in car I decided that seal that has to be issue and if you look oil seal closely you find that it has very small grooves that with rotating shaft will keep oil in and if you have left and right side versions, they really are left and right side use only.
    Yes; oil seal is desing to keep oil in with lip and grooves are just in case lip leaks, but with diff those grooves are actually important.

    solution is use seals that is used both left and right side and I found that 45mm x 60mm x 8mm seal that works with my both cars are:

    VAG 016409399B

    oil seal used almost every VAG product from 1980 to 2000 in Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche.

    Fitment is mutch better then original and is with double seal lip and is ment to be used in both sides.
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    raysur likes this.
  3. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,112
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
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    Mel
    Solution: use seals that is used both left and right side and I found that 45mm x 60mm x 8mm seal that works with my both cars are: VAG 016409399B

    Oil seal used almost every VAG product from 1980 to 2000 in Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche.

    Fitment is mutch better then original and is with double seal lip and is ment to be used in both sides.


    Perfect Mikael !

    Put this very useful info in the cross reference thread please !
     
  4. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
    6,275
    Papineauville, Quebec
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    Claude Laforest
    #4 godabitibi, Sep 1, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
    Thanks Mikael I also have that problem since I did my diff. I had a doudt about the seal because I also saw the arrow were missing on the new one and both I received were the same compared to originals the were different. Will fix it at engine out this winter.

    Great find!
     
  5. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
    I thought this would be common issue, got some PM and email from oil leak I had, so nice to help.

    For change it self;
    With car lift, it takes one day.
    Always fron hedders out first, then rear. No need to remove exhaust.
    With TR you do not need to take outer halfshaft side out, only inner side, there is easy room to change. With BB; shaft out.
     
  6. 512man

    512man Formula Junior

    Jun 27, 2014
    337
    Sweden
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    Tobbe
    Great find Mikael...Kiitos
    Tobbe
     
  7. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
    6,275
    Papineauville, Quebec
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    Claude Laforest
    Got a new seal from my Canadian friend with a single mirror car out west :D Jeff and presently doing the job. Jeff ordered the seals after reading this thread and offered me the one he had left. Next friday I go to Montebello(400 miles one way) and it will be a good test for it. If it doesn't leak after that trip I'll tell you.

    OK lunch and break is over, time to go back to the garage
     
  8. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior
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    May 27, 2010
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    Winnipeg, MB Canada
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    Jeff Blair
    Claude glad you got the $6 seal I sent you! you owe me big time ;) I replaced my seal and have put on 300 miles in the past few weeks, glad to report no leaks. Thanks again to Mikael for doing the research I hope others will benefit from this as changing that seal is a right PITA.

    Cheers
    Jeff
     
  9. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,802
    LA
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    Frank
    I just had my differential changed and the mechanic was able to get the directional seals from Ferrari however the car is back at the shop with the left seal leaking among other issues
     
  10. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,921
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    left seal leaking?
    sure it is not the cover? broken??
     
  11. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
    #11 mikael82, Sep 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It could be fitment issue also, but like I posted earlier; Ferrari has deleted LEFT SIDE OIL SEAL and replaced it from right side. So Ferrari only sell right side seal, that is it.
    Go ahead and point this thread to your mechanic and get that oil seal from left side changed.

    I also like to point my version from tool to get that torque spec right to that flange bolt. In my car it was bolted in with air-tool and that little finger on that washer was off and not locked. So no air tools, please!

    "there are many tools like this, but this is my tool"
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  12. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jeff mine was not much PITA. I did it without removing header and halfshaft. I removed the upper outer bolt of the upper suspension arm and moved it up. Unbolted the shaft from the flange and pulled the suspension upright a bit and moved the axle sideway to clear the flange. I worked from the wheelhouse with long extensions. It was done in a few hours.

    I also found my oil level was a little higher than it should. I filles it when I was in holiday with the back raised working on the ground. Ths may have not helped the seal to leak.

    Mikael, I was able to torque the center bolt with the car in gear and hand brake on.
     
  13. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
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    thats good,
    Since I got this tool I used it all the way.
     
  14. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
    2,045
    Winchester UK
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    Phil Worrall
    I fitted two standard oil seals I researched and not a mention of a drip. And so much cheaper than the Fpimp.


    P
     
    wintech likes this.
  15. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
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    Mikael
    Any standard oil seal would work, but for some odd reason I could not find one in that size from my country and I desided to promote seal that is very common in every country.
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    if you need this seal please send me a PM
    the transport will be more expensive than the seal
     
  17. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
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    Claude Laforest
    Regretfully I will not be able to tell if MY seal did the job. The car sold after my first drive and I didn't check if there was any leak. But I know I couldn't smell burn oil like before when I got out of the car.
     
  18. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,802
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    Frank
    My mechanic was able to source the left side from Ferrari, maybe the dealer he is using has some old stock left, not sure but the replacement one also leaked. He ordered the VW seal and third time is the charm.
     
  19. TerryG!

    TerryG! Karting

    Feb 12, 2017
    155
    Central UK
    An old thread I know but still a current problem - for me at least, I think.

    I'm very much hoping it's the seal and not the cracked side plate problem.

    Mikael, your work and the information you've provided are really helpful, thank you. The engine was out of my car for major work before I got it and it seems possible, given when the work was done, that a wrong seal may be causing my leak.

    I've got a replacement double lip seal and now just need to find the best way to fit it.

    Anyone like to say what my chances are on the 365 BB without taking the engine out? It's tight in there!
     
  20. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
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    Full Name:
    Mikael
    Thanks, I took care to add part number that is available around the world, not just States or Europe.

    I don't know how it goes with 365BB, I think it should be possible to change them in car, half shafts should come out anyway, so there should be room for change. BUT I do like to note that those large o-rings around carriers can also leak, one that I pulled out 512TR was very brittel and that is from mid 1990's. If it is thoes o-rings, everything is coming out. Diff splash guard is connected to left diff carrier, so rear diff cover with mount needs to come out.

    You should be able to see which one it is that is leaking, hopefully it is not o-ring or spilt carrier.

    (btw. I lube rubber parts like o-rings with brake rubber lube before installing them, it should keep rubber soft longer. Bosch RG4)
     

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