Shifting Issues | FerrariChat

Shifting Issues

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by sparta49, Sep 9, 2015.

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  1. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    #1 sparta49, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
    I just picked my car (1991 TR) up last week after being without it for 3 1/2 months while a major service was completed and a differential from Forza was installed. After taking it for a drive it was apparant that something was different in the way the car was shifting or to be more accurate not allowing you to shift gears. Second gear is all but impossible to go into , fourth is also very difficult. This weekend I drove it about 20 miles , driving to my destination things were good after about three miles. Driving home , every gear was difficult to shift into but second was pretty much impossible, and fourth ground gears with the clutch fully depressed. I am being told that the same fluid was used as last time and it may be time for a clutch, last one was six years and 15K miles ago. If the car is idleing the gears can be shifted through without any problem or resistence. The car was shifting fine prior to coming apart, one thing that continues from before is the clutch pedal gets very hard after a few miles of driving, when you come to a stop and then restart it loosens up again and then becomes very hard if you drive for a few miles.
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    when you can shift normaly in idling then the adjustment from the switch lever to the gearbox is right adjusted.

    if all would be ok the clutch is always going the same way., independent if you drive short time, long time or the engine only is idling.

    what do you understand under "very hard"? normaly the first cm/inch the pedal is soft until there comes pressure to the system. then it is getting harder, but all the way down then the same. may be they have not tightend all the screws and bolts from the clutch? I don´t think so, but nobody knows. even the clutch has to be replaced, this getting harder has nothing to do with a worn clutch. but when this problem has been before also why you not told the mechanic when changing the diff ( wise decision ! ! ! ) to have a look at this problem?

    when you start driving the car and press the clutch pedal and release it slowly, when will the car start moving? when the pedal is completely down it is 100 %, when you have your foot off the pedal it is 0 %. normaly the car may start moving when the pedal is between 70 % and 40 %

    if the way is changing then there is air in the system and you have to bleed the hydaulic system
     
  3. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
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    From my understanding, the clutch was not touched, right? Only the Major (belts etc) and diff changed, yes?

    The clutch fluid however would have been either changed or topped up and the system bled as Turbo mentioned. Does the peddle feel the same? I know it may be hard to tell after 3.5 months

    Could the new diff cause the syncros to be out of line (not enough slip)? From my understanding, the gear oil, additives or diff clutch setting could contribute to this. Just a guess.
     
  4. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    The clutch was removed and reinstalled , the pedal is normal and then becomes noticeably harder to depress and hold in. Then gets normal again. I have owned the car for nine years and this is my fourth Ferrari in sixteen years so I can tell the change in pedal feel. It requires effort to depress when it acts up.
     
  5. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
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    #5 ozziindaus, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hmmm, could it be siezing on the spline?
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  6. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    no, never, because it is getting harder when driving.

    this problem is really strange and until now I never had this problem at a F.
    may be the hydraulic hose is bent somewhere or drilled and during driving this hose is moving? only an idea. I had this problem once with my BB, but there the holder for the clutch slave cylinder was tighten too much and the piston could not move free.
     
  7. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Frank, If you sent me a PM I didnt get it.

    Two thoughts:
    First, air/wrong type of fluid. Try bleeding it at the bell housing.
    Second, if you look at page 28 of the parts catalog, specifically sealing ring #28. When I did my clutch, this sealing ring, when installed, made it near impossible for the TO bearing to slide up and down the shaft. It was too tight and the little return springs ran out of 'spring'. I replaced all the rubber gaskets with a set from Recambi and it fit fine. This is working under the assumption that they replaced the seals on the TO bearing while apart and got one that was out of spec.
     
  8. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Go back and have them readjust the linkage in / with your shifter.

    Whenever I've done an engine out I've had the same issues, the force / pressure of driving may have shifted the engine/ cradle just enough to misalign , hence the hard shifting. Now that the engine and cradle have settled you should be fine.

    Easy fix.
     
  9. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Well ... with all these well meant advises: we would like to hear the solution ... :)
     
  10. CornellCars

    CornellCars Formula 3

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    It's possible when they put the clutch back in, they lost one of the small shims that go in the post holes, which is causing the clutch to go diagonal and binding. We fought this issue for almost a week on a car, turns out the new clutch had made it though QC without one of the shims, we used one of the originals and fixed the clutch immediately, but we ran into very similar symptoms as you describe. We thought it could have been an air bubble problem, bled the clutch repeatedly to no avail, replaced slave cylinder thinking that might have failed, adjusted pedal as much as possible, tried building shims because we felt like the clutch wasn't disengaging far enough, etc. We probably removed and reinstalled the clutch 5-6 times to try to figure it out before we noticed one of these shims missing. Instantly fixed the problem, and worth checking if you're going to be in there doing diagnostic.
     
  11. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Do you happen to have made photo's please ? Or show us the part in the appr table ?
     
  12. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

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    Wow, good idea. I think you can look through the bell housing and visually check without too much hassle.

    Mel table #28 of the parts manual on the Recambi site and part #11 shows the spacers.
     
  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    when those shims part # 11 are missing or only 1 is missing then this all has nothing to do with the clutch pedal going harder when driving and will be ok when standing. then the clutch pedal is always same hard or soft.
     
  14. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
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    #14 ozziindaus, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    These can be inspected through the access slots yeh?
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  15. CornellCars

    CornellCars Formula 3

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    We never tried, we discovered it after pulling the clutch for the nth time, I'm trying to think about whether it would be possible to detect if one was missing with the clutch in place, and honestly can't say for sure...as memory serves, I'm thinking that they would be very hard to see sitting in the car through the inspection because of where they sit in the recess, but don't take my word as gospel.
     
  16. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Absolutely correct Romano ! :)
     
  17. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

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    What oil have they used Frank, we always use Redline NS version.

    P
     
  18. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    +1
    Check the flexible braided line from the frame to the bell housing for kinks.
    We had this, similar symptoms.
     
  19. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    linkage was readjusted after test drives (twice)
     
  20. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    Nothing so far, rained all last weekend and slammed at work so heading to mechanic Monday.
     
  21. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    It wasn't redline, it is the same as used last time as the same shop worked on it . We are going to replace with redline Monday.
     
  22. Sunracer

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    bleed the clutch hydraulic system...again
     
  23. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Owwwwwwwwwwwwww silly :D
     
  24. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    If it is the same oil that has been used over the last decade of ownership I really doubt the redline will help but we will see
     
  25. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

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    Frank it may not be the oil causing the problem but I think you will be pleasantly surprised how much better the gears shift with the Redline oil.

    P
     

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