Just when she was going to get full marks..Slow Down | FerrariChat

Just when she was going to get full marks..Slow Down

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Themaven, Jan 23, 2016.

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  1. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,254
    Eastdown
    Full Name:
    Darius
    It's a year since I bought my F512M, and having once been one of those posters who asked, "How much hassle/cost will one of these be in a year", I was about to publish a glowing report on mine. To say, in those 12 months, she has had just 1 problem, a faulty sender meaning the speedo went awry; cheap fix at a Ferrari garage; otherwise, just an annual oil service. She has started first time every time and never let me down, and I love the car.

    Then today I went down to run my daughter to ballet in her (I try to do a 10 mile trip at least once a month in winter if it's dry) only to find rough running and "Slow Down Cyls 1-6". Felt like she was running on one bank, not that I am an expert at all.

    I'll take her to the service centre, anyone have any ideas so I can sound knowledgeable when talking to them, apart from "She's running rough and the light is on"? Why would this suddenly happen - been dry and warm stored.
     
  2. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    1,168
    Virginia Beach
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    Tim
    Slow down is something in the "cat system"

    The cat ecu could be toast....signals your ecu to then shut down.

    If you are able to work on it yourself it will be easy. If not....off to the shop.
     
  3. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    one easy thing anybody can check...

    swap the leads for the two black boxes and see the alternate slow down light comes on - if so, it is the black box that failed - an easy fix to replace the black box.

    HOWEVER : if the alternate light does not come on, do not drive the car any more than neccessary for diagnosis. a truly overheated cat may cause a fire and cat damage.

    rgds,
    Vincenzo
     
  4. cmt6891

    cmt6891 Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    1,334
    Encino, Ca
    Full Name:
    Carl T
    Slowdown light signals an overheating cat probably due to unburned fuel dumped into the cat and igniting there. I would first check that you have spark at all cylinders first.
     
  5. bensonae

    bensonae Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2013
    284
    Tokyo, Japan
    Full Name:
    Alex Benson
    I had this issue and turned out to be a thermocoupler sender. I believe that is the name. It registers the cat temperatures I believe. My cats were perfectly fine just the sensor was bad. Fixed my warning lights and low power issues immediately. And yes you are correct it does shut down an engine bank so you are running on 6 cylinders. Annoying issue but considering the age of the cars you need to expect sensors to occasionally go bad.
     
  6. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,250
    wisconsin/chicago
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    bo
    My slow down light comes on intermittently... I have no cats so they can't overheat... I also did temp readings on the headers and cats when they were in and both sides were the same...

    At no times does either bank get shut down... To me, the light just seems like a nuisance and randomly goes on...

    At what point is it supposed to shut off a bank? If it did that erroneously, I'd be pissed...
     
  7. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
    1,620
    Salt Lake City, UT
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    Joe
    I dunno about the 512m, but afaik in the regular TR, nothing gets shut down when those lights come on. If something did, my car wouldn't run because I disconnected the slow down lights:) sounds like you have a clogged cat to me. Did a rodent make your exhaust pipe in to a home for the winter? :)
     
  8. Tassie

    Tassie Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2009
    349
    Tasmania, Australia
    Full Name:
    Wayne Clark
    Or too much low RPM running and carbon buildup - easy to do in your town.
     
  9. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,254
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    Darius
    Thanks everyone. The thermocoupler sender sounds like it may be it. I will check for fried rodent too.

    Will also check out the DYI solution possibility next weekend - Vincenzo, what exactly do I need to do? The few talents I have been given in life do not extend to the mechanical.
     
  10. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    1,168
    Virginia Beach
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    Tim
    The 512tr has two motronic ECUs....one for each bank. ...TR does not.

    Both will have separate CAT ECUs in the rear that more or less do the same thing. I believe that I recall the job of the cat ecu is to supply a constant 1.5 V to make the motronic ECU happy. Either the cat ecu is functioning properly and you have a cat problem, or something is wrong with the cat ecu delivering a bad signal, thus killing that bank. This has been addressed on many posts throughout Ferrari chat, but you will not find it in any of the "value " threads. This is common on nearly all Ferraris with electronic fuel and ignition.

    If one is not mechanical or electrical, you may need to just send it to your service center. Or, spend some time and read about them. Breath easy, your car is fine. its value has not been eroded. It's a relatively simple fix if you know what you are doing.
     
  11. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,112
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
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    Mel
    This is indeed very often the case: these 512TR/M's need to be driven ABOVE 4000 revs all time ...

    I hardly ever see that right ... we rather drive like old women ... :D
     
  12. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    on the testarossa (the 512 etc are unknown to me) you simply find the two black boxes above the rr axle (item 5 as shown here):

    ELECTRIC CONTROLS FOR KE - JETRONIC AND EXHAUST - Ricambi America, Inc.

    and swap the thermocouple connections between them. These black boxes connect to the thermocouples (items 53 and 54) as shown here:

    EXHAUST SYSTEM (FOR US - SA AND CAT VERSION) - Ricambi America, Inc.

    if the slow down light follows your swapped leads, you can bet the black box (no. 5) is bad.

    if you have a 512 rather than a testarossa, it sounds like (?) this check may not be an option for you.... perhaps a 512 expert could chime in.....

    rgds,
    vincenzo
     
  13. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
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    #13 Themaven, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
    Thanks Vincenzo. It's an M, I'll check it out when back in the UK next week.
     
  14. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,254
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    Darius
    Too true. I avoid that though..and its last outing was a good run out of town for a Ferrari shoot we're running in GQ magazine, with some good company..
     
  15. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    Hope its that F...king black box. If so, swap them both and keep the old one(s) ...

    This is not what you want in future again imo ...
     
  16. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,254
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    Darius
    No slow down lights on today and she's running fine. Sounds like an intermittent fault (or a one-off) as suggested by Alex. Thank you to all those who made helpful suggestions, appreciated.
     
  17. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,254
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    Tim, it turns out your post was heavy with equal quantities of both irony and wisdom. This problem recurred, the car went to the Ferrari shop, who diagnosed a cat controller ECU on one bank. It is now on order, and the F512M should be mine again next week.
    One day I hope to be able to repay you, if, for example, you have a query on the market or concept for a new lifestyle magazine you are planning to launch. Unfortunately I am not going to be in a position to diagnose or fix Ferraris myself, ever. But, for the record, you were correct, and thank you.
    Darius
     
  18. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    1,168
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    Tim
    Darius,

    I just want to help. Keep the old one from the dealer. Lets take it apart and find out what went wrong.

    Lets do a lifestyle on middle aged men like me struggling to keep the 512 running. ;)

    Your 512 should be solid with that very simple fix.
     
  19. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
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    Darius
    I'm impressed that you diagnosed something correctly from 4000 miles away! I will ask to keep the old one. Dealer has just said they can't find a new one in the UK, so I am going to post to see if anyone can help...
     
  20. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,254
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    Darius
    Here's an update on my F512M. The F shop (a respected London specialist) replaced the cat controller ECU with a modified 355 unit. Thanks to Rifledriver, Tim and all on this board who suggested that. They came to this diagnosis independently, but thanks to you I was able to sound like I knew what was talking about, which is satisfying, if nothing else.

    Slow down light went out at last and then - came back again. More investigation and they are suspecting degradation of one of the cats. Exhaust has to come off. I've just given them the OK for that.

    Watch this space for the next exciting episode, and I want my car back for some planned drives in June!!
     
  21. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,929
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    this year or next year :)
     
  22. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,254
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    Thanks for that, Romano!

    News from London is that the car has finally been cured. I'm picking her up tomorrow. And it wasn't the cat controller ECU after all (Tim, you let me down) (kidding, kidding). It was an intermittent fault and eventually it came back (while techs still had it) with the reworked 355 unit.

    They suspected coil packs, nope. Catalyst itself actually breaking up (as someone else here suspected) - nope. It challenged the great minds of Joe Macari (official Ferrari service) in the metal as it challenged the great minds of Fchat's TR/M board.

    And finally, it was resolved. Macaris, being the fine people they are, charged me nothing for the ECU or any of the diagnosis that ended up being wrong (I know plenty of service centres that would do this). Just a quite reasonable fee for what it eventually ended up being.

    And so here's a challenge. What was it, in the end, that caused my intermittent SLOW DOWN CYLS 1-6 light, combined with an intermittent misfire?

    Whoever gets the closest answer gets a copy of the latest Official Ferrari Yearbook, of which I have the dubious honour of being Editorial Director, not because I work for Ferrari, but because I run the division at Conde Nast that publishes it.

    Darius
     
  23. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2012
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    Bad ground?
     
  24. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
    1,620
    Salt Lake City, UT
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    Joe
    Bad spark plug wire(s)?
     
  25. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    1,168
    Virginia Beach
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Little green men...(Like Ant man) ...that invaded the ECU that were trying to tell you to slow down!
     

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